Exercise vs training - Prioritizing

[groupieindenial]

I've been teetering all over the place with how to fine tune my little Vegas. I've been considering the gentle leader, but I'm starting to think I don't need that either. It's just a tool, not a replacement for training. I mean, Vegas is a good walker, he's just excited the first half of the walk (or until we get to the park), and always thinks/hopes we're going to the park to fetch or play frisbee. I havn't been doing that lately, and when I do get the chance, its not fetch, its training instead at the park. He seems just as content and tired afterwards, but does not get the "excercise" he would be with fetch.

It's interesting, that he's just as happy to spend quality training time with me, as he would be with fetch. He's just as tired afterwards, since its mentally draining, the focus and attention I'm trying to build. I do believe excercise is fun, and has its place. But I used to do the excercise instead of training if I was short for time. I've reprioritized, that whatever time I'd spend playing fetch (20 mins), I'll do training now instead. If there is time throughout the week, fetch and play come after training.

I've recently joined a SCH club, and very happy to be there. I've learned SOO much from these people these past 3 weekends out with them, I'm finding major flaws in the methods that are generally taught in regular OB. Now that I've committed to this route, my regular OB trainer all of a sudden has taken interest in Vegas and I, and has made it her mission to help me get my CD on him. I'm kinda not interested to go that route with her. She's impressed with the major improvement Vegas has shown in his heeling, although he does crowd me, but his FOCUS has improved like 80%. He must have been watching them SCH dogs whilst in the car these past few weekends! HE keeps his eyes and head up for much longer periods. His heeling with the regular OB instructor was very poor, because he was more interested in looking on the floor for treats other dogs missed. The tips the club gave me to get his attention, so he knows we're "working" is where I give this thanks to these major improvements.

I don't know, I think this is just an update on us, what I've learned these past few weeks? I just wanted to point out that training should be prioritized over excercise. Also, what to do about my regular OB instructor? Our last class is this monday, and she's got plans for us to go watch some trials and do private training. I am not willing to pay her for private training. I am doing better with the SCH club, and plan to stay there. I want to tell her this, but don't want to hurt her feelings, especially that they are against any corrections, and the methods taught behind SCH. The club I'm with do use motivational methods though.

[SonnyRott]

[quote]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

....I've recently joined a SCH club.....I've learned SOO much from these people these past 3 weekends out with them, I'm finding major flaws in the methods that are generally taught in regular OB.....his FOCUS has improved like 80%.

I'm curious. What are the major differences you see (if you don't mind me asking )? Also, can you adapt what you are learning in the SCH Club to the OB classes?

[SOX_H8r]

I guess you'll just have to decide what you want to do with your dog. If you're going to train in Schutzhund, I'd suggest going with the club. It's usually not a good idea training at two different places. Alot of Schutzhund Clubs put it in their membership requirements, and I can see their point. Since you're at their facility, using their time and expertise, it could be counter-productive to train somewhere else with someone else's methods.

We have club training Sunday afternoons and Thursday nights, and I also get private training a few hours on Tuesdays. The private lessons are like gold, maybe you can check into getting them at your club!

So focus on your BH, before you know it you'll be going for your SchH I. Being in a club enviornment, you'll also have great support, people that have been there, done that. They'll tell you what to expect from Schutzhund and what hurdles they overcame.

Don't worry about hurting your trainers feelings, she'll get over it. You have to think about yourself and your dog. Schutzhund takes alot of time and money, choose wisely.

[groupieindenial]

Well lemme explain whey I didn't notice until I was at the club. Vegas has SOLID down/stays sit/stays in regular OB class. BUT, when practicing this, your attention is ON the dog, right. So even though there are distractions around him,he will stay, as long as he knows I'm watching him. At SCH, when I was to have him in a sit, and started discussing stuff with the trainer, so my attention was no longer on him, he thought he can "break" and do as he wish. I could not get him to STAY, without my attention on him. NEver noticed this before. In SCH, or atleast our club, I have been told to take a few steps back, work on the downs, sits and DO NOT use a reinforcing command like "stay". The dog is to hold the position until told otherwise, PERIOD. SO I feel like I'm starting all over again. We practice this (and I must look like an idiot) at the park, and I turn my attention away from him and start talking to my imaginary friend bob. It also makes him really understand the TRUE meaning of the release command.

ALso, how the focus improved was with this exercise. As your walking on the field, we do this push excersise. basically I put treats in one hand fisted, with the other wrapped on-top. Not say a word, and my dog should come up to my waist, and push into me to get the treats from my fisted hand, as I'm moving slowly backwards. No command, just do this for a few seconds, release and repeat. THIS is when he knows we're gonna start training. DO you know he hasn't tried to mark ONCE since we started doing this, well atleast not during training out on the field.

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by SOX_H8r

I guess you'll just have to decide what you want to do with your dog. If you're going to train in Schutzhund, I'd suggest going with the club. It's usually not a good idea training at two different places. Alot of Schutzhund Clubs put it in their membership requirements, and I can see their point. Since you're at their facility, using their time and expertise, it could be counter-productive to train somewhere else with someone else's methods.

We have club training Sunday afternoons and Thursday nights, and I also get private training a few hours on Tuesdays. The private lessons are like gold, maybe you can check into getting them at your club!

So focus on your BH, before you know it you'll be going for your SchH I. Being in a club enviornment, you'll also have great support, people that have been there, done that. They'll tell you what to expect from Schutzhund and what hurdles they overcame.

Don't worry about hurting your trainers feelings, she'll get over it. You have to think about yourself and your dog. Schutzhund takes alot of time and money, choose wisely.

I was already into the level 3 OB class, before I even joined th SCH club. SO I am just "finishing" up the classes. LIke I said, Monday is the last day. For companion type training, and canine behaviour, she's not bad. But it's no comparison to the national champion titles that come out of this club.

SCH is cheaper than enrolling him in classes every 2 months! So its not going to be more expensive than the $ I've spent so far, not to mention agility classes that didn't work out for us. The $ on his echocardiogram last month, the neutering and misc last week. I look at this as a hobby for both of us. I really don't care about the money, for what I'll get in return. To see improvements already, with basic beginner type of excercises blows me away.

[damp]

I would go for the Schutzhund. A good club should be able to help you with all kind of problems… and no need for other classes or personal training.

Also a Saturday/Sunday on the training field will give your dog physical but last but not least mental exercises.

I would keep up the physical exercise with some bicycling and/or swimming and the mental exercises and ”make up” with short lessons 5 –10 min. “carcass obedience” (means NO “Bull ????” at all, correcting all unwanted behaviour and disobedience (of course your dog most know what you ask for) and total attention… interrupted by playtime between the exercises every day and a track 2 – 3 times a week.

It takes a physical strong dog to keep focus… no matter if it’s on the track, in obedience or the bite work.

In Schutzhund obedience counts just as much as good track and bite work.

[jas'smom]

I was in the same delima with Jas....OB or Sch??? It took one time on the training field for me to make up my mind I do still want to trial Jas In AKC OB at some point...but will save that for a bit later...

I also find that I can incorporate some training into my exercise with Jas....she too likes to fetch and chase so I use that on our runs..I have the ball with me and do some OB work while we are having fun hiking...Fus on the trail, platz by the creek that sort of thing. Her reward is to chase the ball and hunt it out of various weeds and bushes!!

[groupieindenial]

Oh, theres no debate here between OB and SCH. I've made up my mind, no doubt about that. Just wondering how to shake the OB trainer. She has all these plans, and I don't want to do them. I'm more interested in the SCH titles to aim for as goals.

I was kinda reflecting on how my priorities have shifted, and he seems just as happy to train, as playing fetch. It doesn't matter, as long as he's got my attention. Both are interactive, so he probably doesn't see a difference. He really enjoys learning, so why would I assume he'd enjoy a game of fetch over learning? I underestimated my own dog, boy do I have yet a lot more to learn.

[jas'smom]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

Oh, theres no debate here between OB and SCH. I've made up my mind, no doubt about that. Just wondering how to shake the OB trainer. She has all these plans, and I don't want to do them. I'm more interested in the SCH titles to aim for as goals.

I was kinda reflecting on how my priorities have shifted, and he seems just as happy to train, as playing fetch. It doesn't matter, as long as he's got my attention. Both are interactive, so he probably doesn't see a difference. He really enjoys learning, so why would I assume he'd enjoy a game of fetch over learning? I underestimated my own dog, boy do I have yet a lot more to learn.

Your dog is very lucky to have you!!!!!

The trainer will be fine....just explain to her that you have different goals at this point in time...

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by damp

I would go for the Schutzhund. A good club should be able to help you with all kind of problems… and no need for other classes or personal training..

I totally agree! A few tips, and we've already come a long way.

Originally Posted by damp

Also a Saturday/Sunday on the training field will give your dog physical but last but not least mental exercises.


I would keep up the physical exercise with some bicycling and/or swimming and the mental exercises and ”make up” with short lessons 5 –10 min. “carcass obedience” (means NO “Bull ????” at all, correcting all unwanted behaviour and disobedience (of course your dog most know what you ask for) and total attention… interrupted by playtime between the exercises every day and a track 2 – 3 times a week..

I had planned on starting to jog myself, since I've been out of it for a while. I would like to incorporate him into my excercise routine. I never did run for long periods anyways, it was always interval sort of training. I never ran for more than 30 mins (not including warm up/warm downs). I hope this will help later down the road when his endurance and stamina will be pushed. I understand that is thier drawback vs Mals. We are total newbies to this, so keep in mind that we're starting right down at the basics.

Originally Posted by damp

It takes a physical strong dog to keep focus… no matter if it’s on the track, in obedience or the bite work.

In Schutzhund obedience counts just as much as good track and bite work.

I'm required to get his FH before I can even do protection. Thats what I like about this club, they want to see some commitment!

[damp]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

I'm required to get his FH before I can even do protection. Thats what I like about this club, they want to see some commitment!

Uhm…I don’t understand this

I DO understand your club requires you do tracking and obedience (many countries require to pass a BH before you are allowed to enter a Sch H trail) but really I don’t understand (IF they find you and your dog capable for SchH) that they require to pass FH before you can start training bite work. It takes a mature dog to concentrate and have the stamina to do a FH.
A 12 weeks old pup can be introduced to search and tracking JUST as to bite work: Building the drives, working with the bite and gain confidence by winning the sack for a full grip etc.

[groupieindenial]

Oh, maybe its the BH (I'm still getting used to these SCH acronyms) does that sound right?

Its a way to weed out the machismo asses that want to work with her solely for protection. They are a very tight club. So these people stop coming after a few weeks, or months if they have to do OB and tracking. I would rather have a solid OB with him, before getting into all that. I would like to see him mature a little more, he is just over a year, before getting into that. They take the Protection part seriously, and feels that dogs train through her club is her responsibility, not to mention a direct reflection on her abilities and reputation. I have no problem with it.

[SOX_H8r]

Yup, the BH starts the whole ball rolling! On/off lead heeling, heeling through traffic(people), sit, down, long down while another dog is doing the routine, cars, joggers and tying out your dog unattended to see how he'll react to another leashed dog. And if that's not enough fun, first time handlers have to take a written test, woohoo! It's very structured though, and you'll know exctly what to expect.

I have been told to take a few steps back, work on the downs, sits and DO NOT use a reinforcing command like "stay". The dog is to hold the position until told otherwise, PERIOD.

Yea, that's how the Schutzhund folks do it! You shouldn't have any problem readjusting, it'll be a breeze! I see your dog is a year old, the minimum age requirement for the BH is 15 months, so you have plenty of time to get it down.

[damp]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

Oh, maybe its the BH (I'm still getting used to these SCH acronyms) does that sound right?

Its a way to weed out the machismo asses that want to work with her solely for protection.

Yes that sounds better LOL!!!
But still IF the trainers and helpers find an owner and dog capable for Sch H I don’t see any reason to wait for passed BH to start bite work.

[Stubby]

Neither do I... It takes a fair bit of work to get to BH level. And the next step is a SCH1.. So, they are saying NO bitework AT ALL until a BH? Seems kinda strange to me.

What club is it??