When to praise for "Good Stay"

[Diva'sOwner]

Haley is 16 weeks now! And she knows stay. It was actually easier to teach than down. The stays are only about 20-25 seconds before I give her the "you're free" command. But my question is when do I praise her for staying? While she's in the sit stay or after I say free? I don't want her to get excited by my praise and think she can leave or come to me.

[Judi W]

I don't like doing anything that is stimulating for stay or static exercises. I believe it is unfair to the dog. And you do not want to form the image in the dog's mind even as a baby puppy that they end with a big whoopie doo. Return quietly to the dog's side, a gentle stroke of the head and a quiet release. Otherwise you simply build energy towards the end of the stay which too often bleeds off to being released before it is supposed to end..

[Diva'sOwner]

Ahhh! (light bulb goes off) But what about this new game that we started. She's in a sit stay, while she's sitting I go and hide her toy and then release her to find it. She races to find it. Should we not play this type of game while she's still learning a calm stay?

[Judi W]

I guess that is OK, however, with a pup where I really want to build drive, I don't ask for that kind of stay. I'd rather they be restrained and then released. Can be restrained by a teather or behind a gate. I feel that kind of game creates too much conflict between a calm and comfortable stay which is what I aim for with stays, and the chase go find drive that I am/will use for recalls, fetches, etc. I want more maturity before asking stay, chase, stay chase........

[Diva'sOwner]

Thanks again Judy! I totally agree that she should be older before playing the find it game from a stay. I will have someone hold her leash when we play that game, which is so fun!

[BostonRott]

When rewarding a behaviour, you must reward WHILE it is being "done" or you're not rewarding what you think you are. If you reward after the release, you've rewarded the release, or perhaps whatever she did next (jump up, run around, etc). Dogs only understand reward/punishment in the context of "NOW."

Many trainers around here have you calmly walk back in to the dog and give a quiet verbal praise and a small tidbit of treat for holding the stay. Also, there is no huge reward on the release, just a bland release and a quiet pat. This sets the dog up to think that staying is more fun than being released.

[Diva'sOwner]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

When rewarding a behaviour, you must reward WHILE it is being "done" or you're not rewarding what you think you are. If you reward after the release, you've rewarded the release, or perhaps whatever she did next (jump up, run around, etc). Dogs only understand reward/punishment in the context of "NOW."

Many trainers around here have you calmly walk back in to the dog and give a quiet verbal praise and a small tidbit of treat for holding the stay. Also, there is no huge reward on the release, just a bland release and a quiet pat. This sets the dog up to think that staying is more fun than being released.

Cool! I will praise while she is sitting because I think I've been getting her all happy during the release, which is not what I meant to do.

[Canadianrotti]

Just a little side thought here. In our class they taught us "stay" and "wait". Stay is a formal command, in which the dog is only released when I am in starting position at her side.

Wait is unformal, and is more of a stay put until I give another comand. This is usefull for doing things like recals and such.

At first I thought, so what, they are basically the same? But buy dividing the 2 commands, you build a much more solid "stay", because there is no uncertiany in what is asked of.

[Diva'sOwner]

Do any of you correct the puppy when they are in a sit stay and slide into a down? When she does this, I walk over to her and sit her up. Should she know that this is wrong? I have all these questions because the puppy class is stalled right now on "heel" and hasn't spent much time on stay. (We have a pretty good heel but she likes to sniff the ground as we walk.)

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by Canadianrotti

Just a little side thought here. In our class they taught us "stay" and "wait". Stay is a formal command, in which the dog is only released when I am in starting position at her side.

Wait is unformal, and is more of a stay put until I give another comand. This is usefull for doing things like recals and such.

At first I thought, so what, they are basically the same? But buy dividing the 2 commands, you build a much more solid "stay", because there is no uncertiany in what is asked of.

I used to think that using two different commands made a difference until my trainer pointed out quite clearly that it didn't really matter. Dog quickly realizes that if it is in a stay with a line of dogs there is no recall (crossing arms your arms during the stay in novice helps as well.) - She illustrated how meaningless the actual word was when she asked Bella to "heel" by saying Bella "hup" or some other word to that effect and Bella heeled because she knew by her position and trainers body language (left hand at waist) what came next. She showed me same thing with recall when used a nonsensical word instead of come and Bella still charged across the mat...

In the last 3 months I have changed several commands (here to come, jump to over get it to fetch etc...) Bella never seemed to notice LOL...

[BostonRott]

yes, she needs to understand that lying while sitting is not correct. This can be done by fixing her to a sit position (as you're doing) with no emotion, or giving a verbal "ut oh" (marker of incorrect behaviour). Later as she progresses in her training, you can give more of a correction if you wish.

NEVER feed her/reward her after she's back in her sit (that you had to fix). NEVER FEED A FIX.

[Judi W]

whether the staying position is going to end with a recall or with the handler returning and heeling the dog out of it, or giving it a different position (down), the dog is still to maintain position and place until another command is given.