first experience with pinch collar

[DanS]

Ok, I have been working with my pup since he was 10 weeks old on his obedience and manners. He is now 6 months old, and does great most of the time, but I felt that he was starting to lose attention, especially when outside, or around people. (distractions) So in-order to get my pups attention, I am trying a pinch (or prong) collar for training purposes. His first trial with the collar was when he saw some of the kids he loves to play with outside. He immedieatly lunged to go play with them, got his first tug from the collar, and went right into a sit. I was soooo happy. He never seemed upset, wanted so much to play with the kids, that I don't think he even realized that it was a correction. It just reminded him of what he should do. Now, he did have a hard time containing himself, little wiggle butt just about bouncing off the ground, but did very well.

Ok, so that is my bragging about my pup. Does any one have any suggestions or cautions about training with this collar?

Thanks,

Dan

[WorkinDogz]

Just make sure it's sized correctly and hooked up to both rings.

Very effective training tool when used properly :)

Good luck and happy training!

[LORHEL]

Dan: My husband and I have a 7 month old male rottweiler. We have been using the pinch collar on him, since it was introduced to us by our instructor at his first puppy class. What a lifesaver on walks! Our dog is very friendly, and doesn't really have alot of problems on walks, but just in case, we do use the pinch collar. It came in handy for me when he spotted a rabbit, and went nuts Our boy is already 90 pounds and still growing. We have added lots of links to the collar already. You may want to go to the pet store and purchase some extra links. You can add them on as his neck gets bigger Our dog Zeke is also easily distracted and the collar helps to keep him moving along and minding his own business :p Our instructor at the class had told us the pinch collar is better long-term on the dog rather than the typical choke collar, because it does not put as much strain on their neck :) Good luck with your dog :) Zekes mom.

[JROD]

Originally posted by DanS:
got his first tug from the collar, and went right into a sit.

Dan:

Pinch collars are by far the most effective and humane training collars out there. Be sure to give a loud verbal command with the correction (in this case, "Heel! + a strong "pop" of the lead is more effective than a tug). The idea behind the pinch is to eventually train them to obey by just listening so the verbal command is essential. You will see excellent results if used properly. Don't be afraid to give him a strong yank on the lead, this is the only way they feel the pinch. They should know that it's a correction.

[ February 13, 2001: Message edited by: JROD ]

[ February 13, 2001: Message edited by: JROD ]

[Sansano]

Hi there. I like the prong better than a choke collar but I am not a fan of either. I would highly suggest a gentle leader type halter first especailly on such a young pup. My traning club does not allow the use of chockers or prongs on such youg dogs if at all. The prong collar in my opinion is only effective when used by an experienced trainer. Remember, train the dog to perfiorm the behavious based on motivation and not to avoid an aversive (you yankiing on the collar). The dog sat because he was being yanked on and it hurt. At this age you would be correcting the dog for something he doesn't know. One poster said give the verbal command "heel" plus a tug. Well, the dog doesn't know what heel means yet for god sakes. Also, I would not take the advice of "don't be afraid to pull on the collar". In fact I would do the opposite. If the dog is pulling, stop moving. The dog will pull and then stop on its own. This is the only use I have for a prong...dogs that pull during walks although I think the gentle leader solves the problem better. To me the prong collar is that good of a training tool . I just read a great book that went over stuff like this. It is called "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. Wonderful book. Good luck and keep us posted. By the way check the archives on prong collar and gentle leader. Lots of great info. It's good to see you looking for information instead of just taking the trainers word for it. :D

[ February 13, 2001: Message edited by: Sansano ]

[OurBoyKane]

Different strokes for different folks i guess, but I believe 6 & 7 months is way too soon for a prong, or serious obedience, they're only babies for crying out loud.

Like Sansano said - they have to know what they're doing wrong before a correction will be effective. Otherwise they'll work out that you are the one causing the uncomfortable sensation, and for what reason they have no clue! Aren't you spose to be the good guy, the one he wants to be with.

Sorry if i sound a bit gruff but its late here and its JMHO.

Evan.

[WorkinDogz]

The way I read Dan's post was the dog was being "corrected" by the prong collar for lunging behavior on lead; not for failure to sit, down, stay or heel.

I completely agree that a correction for a command at this point is premature...however; correcting inappropriate behaviors on lead (such as lunging or pulling) is appropriate at this time.

Dan, please correct me if I am wrong?

[OurBoyKane]

Originally posted by DanS:
Ok, I have been working with my pup since he was 10 weeks old on his obedience and manners. He is now 6 months old, and does great most of the time, but I felt that he was starting to lose attention, especially when outside, or around people. (distractions) So in-order to get my pups attention, I am trying a pinch (or prong) collar for training purposes. ...snip..

since 10 wks old,- now six months old,-starting to lose attention around distractions,- so in order to get my pups attention...

In my opinion it's expecting way too much too soon and a prong is overkill. I don't give two hoots what the correction was for.

Evan.

[DanS]

All,

WorkinDogz is correct. I am not using the prong as a correction method of training. I felt it was more of a self corretion for when my pup lunged when he saw someone he wanted to play with.

And FWIW, my dog is already very obedient. He will pretty much sit, come, down and heel on command as long as the distractions are not too bad. What I am hoping for from the collar is to use a small tug to get his attention when he does not perform a command when he is distracted. Example, we are out walking, which he does without pulling on the leash, unless he really wants to go that way to play, and I want him to stop and sit by the curb before we cross the street. He is busy watching cars so when I give the command Stop, he stops, but when I say sit, he does not sit. Before the prong, I would touch his but with a finger, and he would sit. Now I use a finger pull on the leash, NOT a yank, and he sits right down. On Heel he is back up and walking again.

Is 6 months old too young to be demanding this type of obedience? I thought it was never too young to start?


d

[WorkinDogz]

I don't feel 6 months is too young for LEASH RESPECT. No lunging, no pulling....

Dan,

The only problem I can see is that you may be using the prong as a crutch right now. TEACH the dog to sit when you stop; the prong shouldn't come into play. I have no doubt that you are being gentle and not yanking his head off if he doesn't stop; but I would suggest you get his attention a few steps before you're ready to stop and SHOW him the sit on a halt. (this of course is if you're out on a stroll and not doing "training" per say.....if you're out in a training situation; you really should have the dogs attention anyway...)

Puppy imprinting for obedience starts the day a puppy is brough into my home. No Dan, it's never to early to lay a good foundation via motivation. Save the corrections for disobedience for LATER however.

[luvarott]

It doesn't sound as if you are using the prong to teach "attention". You are using it to correct lunging behavior. If you really have been instructing the puppy since he was very young and he is now starting to pull these adolescent hijinks......then you are doing the right thing. The longer the puppy is allowed to lunge the harder the behavior will be to eradicate...and it is much simpler to end this when small/weaker than he will be in just a few months.
It depends so much on the temperament of the individual animal AND on the training history up to this point.

[DanS]

Thank you everyone for your inputs. This is why I really like this forum. Just for clairification, and to hear any additional comments, I got the prong collar because he was acting up when distracted. Basically when we are inside, he is like velcro, and obeys almost every command, except for maybe to kennel up. Outside he is a very confident, and independent dog (which I believe is a good trait in a Rottie). It is more difficult for me to get his attention, especially when he sees another dog, or any other playmate. What the prong is enabling me to do is GENTLY direct his attention to my voice so he obeys the command of sit, or heel or what ever. I know some have problems with me requiring this level of obedience from a 6 month old, but without the distractions, he is very good. There is a fenced in tennis court that we go to and train that he will heel, sit, and come even when off the leash. So I guess my question is, if I should not be using the prong as a way to get the dogs attention when distracted, what should I use? I have tried treats, and they do not work very well when he is distracted. Suggestions???

Thanks everyone,

d

[WorkinDogz]

The easiest way to get a distracted dogs attention is to turn around and go the other way as the distraction (IMHO) and then REWARD his attention.

Some use a ball or toy to reward attention; I prefer weenies :)

Don't bait the dog into attention...REWARD it when you HAVE IT.

*Most* dogs will look up at you if you turn from the distraction ("Huh? Did you say something..sorry...I was daydreaming") and that's the time to reinforce with a "Good Heel" and reward.

You don't have to give a correction; your turning and going when he's not paying attention gives the correction by itself.

You're doing just fine Dan....always remember his age and that some dogs mature faster and are more prepared than others for "formal" training.