Are we the problem dog?? (LONG)

[hmeadq]

In our new class we have a problem; Casey the poodle! (or maybe the problem is Doc)... (I know this story is told from my eyes, but I talked about it with one of the other owners and she agreed with my thoughts, still...)

Doc and him seemed not to like each other... The trainer thought that Doc was instigating, but I don't think so! Although I expect Doc to behave himself in class, regardless, which is more then I can say of Casey's mom!

So what happened was we were heeling behind Casey and she turned around to look at us and Doc jumped towards her. And again and again! Now his tail was wagging, but I don't know. The trainer said that Casey had an issue and so did Doc. The trainer said maybe Doc thought he was a black sheep since Doc just started herding. So she made us stand facing each other and take steps towards each other. Doc was defiantly trying to get towards Casey, but I know she was scared of Doc because her mom pulled her away from us the second we walked through the door, how can you help but pass that energy to your dog?

I know that when I get leery of a dog Doc knows it.

The class only has 4 dogs in it, which is great in my book. One of the dogs is Charlie an Australian who was in our last class with us. Charlie is the star pupil, and never had problems or issues with other dogs in our previous class except for Prince the Dobbie who had a problem with EVERYONE! But even Charlie is having problems with the poodle.

So I am standing there thinking that it is all Doc. But then we start heeling walking parallel to each other and we are no where near the poodle (the trainer put us on separate sides of the room), but Charlie (the Australian) jumps towards the poodle! You could have knocked Charlie's mom over with a feather she was so shocked.

Then we stood about 8 feet away from each other and you were supposed to walk your dog around each dog in turn. Doc sat there perfectly watching me and one by one each dog walked by and with the exception of looking at them for a second Doc paid none of the other dogs any mind, not even the poodle. We went last and started heeling and went around each dog the poodle was last and Doc got halfway around and then the poodle moved towards Doc and I had to correct him (rather strongly) to get him to continue to heel.

When got back to my spot I saw the poodle was still looking at us.

In each of our previous classes we have had a dog that was an issue. First class it was a Dalmatian that had to be separated from the other dogs and worked in a side ring. In the second class it was Prince, who scared me a little when I noticed that the trainers NEVER looked him in the eye and told us not to. Now I'm trying to figure out if Doc is the problem or the poodle. How do I deal with it either way?

I have to say that Doc is 7-1/2 months and defiantly in adolescence and much less likely to back down then he used to be. He will stand his ground and let you know his opinion of a situation.

[Judi W]

Well, you cannot control the Poodle, but you certainly have a say in how your own dog behaves. Who is instigating it is not a point. It is time to teach Doc that he will be corrected for even glancing in the other dog's direction. You want to teach him now that if he even starts to think about engaging another dog in eye contact it will be most unpleasant. Don't wait until the thought is fully formed in his little pea brain. Correct when that thought is still out in the distance. Much easier to do now that to wait until next year when he's had more practice and is older and stronger.

[hmeadq]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Much easier to do now that to wait until next year when he's had more practice and is older and stronger.

YOU MEAN HE'LL GET STRONGER!!!

[BostonRott]

I have met many Rottweilers who have issues with poodles. Vikka does not like poodles (never has) and is also not a fan of Portugese Water Dogs. I honestly think it has something to do with all the hair over their face/eyes. In December, Vikka was attached TWICE by a Standard poodle while waiting to go in the agility ring. The first shot I didn't even see coming.....we were well away from the gait, awaiting our turn to go in, and Vik was in front of me in a sit......from my right comes this awful noise and a lunging snapping poodle. My instant reaction was "What did Vik do that I missed to provoke that??" There were 3 people sitting behind me doing the computer scoring for the trial and they all said we had done nothing wrong, and apparently that poodle has some temperament issues, as it's known to go after other dogs.

My personal experience with poodles in classes (going back to when Froli was a puppy 6yrs ago) is that many dogs don't like them, and they also seem to be very poor in reading dog body language. They tend to be hyper and "hoppy," thus inciting prey drive, and for some reason, they also seem to come with clueless owners who don't think better of trying to get control of their dog.

I know I'm making some broad generalizations, but it's what I've seen over the past 6 years across many situations, locations and "types" of people/owners.

I personally nail my dogs for giving any particular dog a hard time, I don't care if it's a breed they hate for no reason or if the dog is hard staring them........our breed doesn't need the reputation.

[MontanaRott]

We have 2 Standard Poodles in Guerins Rally class, they have been in several other classes with him as well, and fall quite nicely under your broad generalizations Gret. The owner is clueless, the dogs are out of control and it is a mess when they are there. I wonder if people read how smart these dogs are and just get them thinking they come out of the box trained.
Guerin learned quickly, not to look at them or he gets a nice correction.

[Canadianrotti]

The class only has 4 dogs in it, which is great in my book.


We have 10 dogs in our class this go round, and I think it is great!!! In the real world there are going to be many different types of dog that you will face, and may of them will either have no owner at all, or one that thinks dog traning ends when they no longer pee in the house!!!

Yes it is much more of a challenge for you and your dog to focus with so many other dogs in class, but it will make your training that much more effective with all the extra effort required.

Just imagine my class of 10, walking around with no leashes, zig, zaging in between other dogs off leash!!! It is quite the sight to see.

Just forget what the other folks are doing and focus on your own efforts.

[GenHannibal]

Have had similar encounters with poodles. Had a neighbor who had two and she stated that they were quite "dog-agressive" and, she had to watch them around people. My thoughts are the same as the other posters, owners have NO clue.

However, my dogs were taught not to pay attention to them.

[hmeadq]

They are a small place. These 4 dogs came from the last 3 Basic Classes.

They had 7 signed up but 2 switched to Agility and 1 was a no-show. They decided to do the class anyway!

I am very pleased the class is so small. In March we will, hopefully, start pre-novice at the local training club, I'm sure that class will be much bigger, but its also half the price and has trainers who train for compition not just household. (also twice as far from home)

My goal is to go to a couple of Rally events by the end of the year (maybe even RN). Also CGC, if I can make him play nice.

He will continue to get correction when he shows any negative behavior. His attention is getting better as he is getting older. We are supposed to be off leash by the end of this class we'll see!

[Judi W]

nope nope nope - you should not be waiting until he shows any negative behavior. If you wait until then, his thought is already formed, his juices are already flowing and he is already involved. I really did mean it when I said he should be corrected for attempting to look. I wasn't funnin about that. If you don't tend to this right now, you are really going to have your hands full when he finds a whole bunch of dogs he hasn't sorted out yet and it will be a lot more than just one.

[hmeadq]

OK.

If he glances at another dog does that count to? Or just if he LOOKS at it?

I'm not trying to be dense, really... I want him to be a good dog.

[Judi W]

If you are going to do this right, he is corrected unless he immediately redirects his look whenever it encounters another dog. Sorry, I know this sounds harsh, but you are not going to like the way it will go if you don't do this. He is already starting his habit of how he is going to behave with other dogs and he only has 4 to behave with. The way he starts now is going to determine his adult behavior.

The only time he should be looking is if he has been given explicit permission to interact with another dog and that should never be in class or with self-selected others. It should only occur when you have carefully chosen a play dog and are in a private confined place. Then you give permission.

[hcelsa]

Regardless of who's instigating the behavior, the Rottweiler WILL be blaimed for anything inappropriate. Because of that sad fact, its important to teach your dog that it isn't appropriate to key on other dogs for any reason (Ms. Breve's working on that one right now as she's decided that she can grab a piece of Aussie hair when they run by her real fast out at herding--its not malicious "merely" inappropriately directed prey drive, BUT she's still been shaken by her cheeks for even thinking about it).
As to SP stereotypes, we've got two very nice Standard Poodles that herd out with us (not a dog aggressive bone in their bodies, very well trained, and very nice herding dogs ), and some dogs DO tend to key on them (I don't think it has anything to do with their "sheepy" appearance, but more than likely their bouncy/lightfooted and quick).
He definitely needs to be reprimanded/quickly redirected for anything more than a casual glance at the other dogs at this point if he's keying on this dog or he will just get worse about it. Classtime isn't playtime, so he should be focused on interacting with you rather than the other dogs while in class. It is completely fair to correct him for taking his focus/attention off of you , and it will prevent future headaches as he's only going to become more interested in other dogs as he gets older.

[BostonRott]

I also have no hesitation in letting an owner know when their dog is instigating something. I'll ask them firmly to get their dog under control, or suggest that trying to stare down a Rottweiler is not an intelligent move on their dog's part. I don't honestly care what their opinion of me is, I want to go to class to learn, and to be able to work my dog safely.