Re-training 'Fetch'

[fruitandnutz]

Could anybody pls offer any experience/advice on re-training the fetch instruction.

Basically, we noticed the other day that Jack has decided he won't fetch anymore. He's always had a problem with this one, which we think is dominance related, and to be honest it's a command we don't use that much as an everyday thing. When he was young we trained him using those hollow plastic bones, which you fill with treats, throw, then when he fetches it back, we unscrew the top and give him the treat. This doesn't work for him now. He won't even fetch in the park when he's having fun. Frisbees, balls, raggers etc.... you name it... he won't fetch it!

I know he understands the instruction, because of the very great lengths he'll go to, to avoid actually dropping the item in my hand. ... heaven's forbid! ie. he'll run to the item, pick it up, come towards me, then drop it on the floor about 3 feet away. Any further attempts to get him to give me the item, result in him just walking away completely dis-interested, or walking around the item, then lying down a foot or so away from it nonchantly watching me.

I should mention that when he wants his lil' blue cube-kong filled with cheese, he hunts it down and brings it to us , but obviously this is at his instigation and not our instruction, which is why I think it is a dominance issue. He's fine with down-stays and all the usual commands.

Any advice much appreciated! Many thanks.

[LisaS]

If it was me, I'd go for a three-pronged approach.
1) Play more of the two-hoses game to get him bringing back close to me to get another throw.
2) Go back to beginning fetch training - that is, take-hold-give, all within a foot or two, just like when you were starting out.
3) Teach the carry and deliver in different (non fetch) contexts. Have him carry something while walking/heeling. Stop and practice the Give. Leave him and do a recall while he's holding an object. etc.

[Judi W]

Is your goal a formal retrieve or are you just playing around?

[fruitandnutz]

Many thanks for your replies LisaS and Judi W.

I think I will break down the formal retrieve again - Jack has a special dumbell for this, and (as he's never really been into it anyway) just accept that he doesn't think that fetching back the other stuff is fun. Thinking it through, I can't force him to 'have fun' and if fetch is such a big deal to me, then perhaps I should've got a Collie.

I did wonder initially if it could be a dominance issue (Jack's quite subtle about these), but his general obedience is still fine, so I'll just keep an eye on it.

By the way LisaS, what is the two-hoses thing?

Once again, many thx for your advice and helping me rethink context/perspective.

[Judi W]

Still not clear to me if you need a formal fetch for competition, or if you just want a fetch for recreation purposes. If you want a formal fetch for competition, it doesn't sound like you ever really had one so you do need to start with the foundation and on a lead and then long line. Another thing if he is playing you for a fool is to work it in a hallway so he cannot run around or avoid you.

If it is for recreation and the dog doesn't think it is fun, then it is not recreation from his point of view. The two hoses won't work for a dog that doesn't have the drive. I'm not sure if there is a good description of the two hoses on the forum. Lisa will know.

[fruitandnutz]

Apologies for not being clearer. Hope this clarifies a little.

Fetch to me is the fun stuff (balls, frisbees etc.), which we've broken down as:
1) chase
2) catch
3) retrieve
Fetch stuff we throw. He chases it, catches it and brings it back.

Retrieve (we use the command 'Get-it'), is the obedience stuff (using the dumbell only), which we've broken down as:
1) Take-it
2) Carry-it
3) Give-it
His Retrieve dumbell is always already placed on the floor. He picks it up, carries it back and releases it in our hand. We actually didn't use training leads when we first trained this, but he picked it up quite well, although he doesn't do it in competition.

Re. my initial post, Jack has never liked to Fetch, but used to happily Retrieve. He will still Retrieve his dumbell (most of the time), but refuses to Fetch. As I mentioned earlier maybe he just doesn't think it's fun and the more I push it, the more it won't be.

Although I'm going to leave the Fetch, I'm still going to break-down and re-teach his Get-it, as I see that as obedience stuff and therefore non-negotiable.

[LisaS]

Two-hoses is a game used to build *play* drive - according to Dildei. You alternate between two *identical* objects - traditionally 8-10" pieces of garden hose or automotive water hose - but could use squeaky toys - but nothing that rolls or bounces (like a ball) as this could be fun on its own - the idea is that you control the fun.

Here is a good explanation I found on the web:
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0142.htm

when Dildei explains it (or Shirley Booth) he has the dog running back & forth in front of you - that is - you face 12 o'clock and toss to 3 or 9 o-clock and dog runs to you in the center.

and here's a link to a really old thread on this subject:
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...ighlight=hoses

[fruitandnutz]

Thank you LisaS. Much appreciated! I'd never heard of it before, but I'll certainly give it a read.