weaning off the prong

[Bastianboy]

I have been using a prong for about 8-10 months now on Bastian and it works pretty well although there are times he'll run with it on and get a healthy correction. I really want to start weaning him off of it as we are getting closer to doing agility trials and have already done herding trials. I have a collar that's like a martingale, but with a chain part and it sort of works, but he knows when it's on and if the leash is attached to it if he has both collars on. I have been told it comes with time, but I feel the more we use prong the less he pays attention to anything else. I have thought about using a hex chain, but don't really like the choker idea. Anyone have any ideas on how to start the switch??

[Judi W]

For obedience competition you will want a slip collar at least at the novice level. For agility, since there is never a lead attached at any time, a simple buckle collar is fine. Herding, I use no collar or a buckle collar.

It is not the collar, but the level of training and understanding that the dog has for the instructions given. You do not wean from collar, but from the cues given by the leash. A good way to do this is to use a piece of cord with a loop in each end, run through the collar ring and your finger through the loops. You can then slip the string completely out of the collar rings if you wish or leave it in place. The idea is to get rid of all the cues you give with the lead.

Start out with weaning yourself, not the dog, from overuse of the leash. Too many people use the leash for a cutch guiding every move with it. Hang that leash over your shoulder, and take you hand off of it and see where you are. Only reach for the lead when absolutely necessary. Use your voice and body english. Too many guidance type corrections or guidance make for a lazy dog who doesn't have to pay attention because the handler will do all the work with the lead.

I don't know what your "idea" of a slip collar is, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a slip collar.

[Bastianboy]

In our obedience class we do a lot of "off lead" work. We actually drop the lead and let it drag which will somewhat allow you to catch the dog if taking off. He will listen a lot to my feet movement. If I trip or scuff my feet at all, his head whips around and his butt hits the ground. We can do right turns, left turns, about turns, fast, slow and halt with no pressure on the leash. Even on our walks, if I let him get out in front of me to sniff, I can usually get him back by asking for a "heel". That is, however, if there are no new people or dogs around. The only time I use the lead is when he's trying to get to another dog or person (or the sheep). I cannot get his attention off of them without the prong. It was suggested that I use the hex choker show collar because it will pull hair a bit and maybe be a bit more corrective than the flat, but not quite the prong.

[Judi W]

Oh, I don't think it is a big deal either way. You are weaning off the lead and that is the most important. The hex is darn hard on your hands if/when you put your hand through the collar. I use a simple Herm Springer slip chain. Consider bringing him back and giving him a good tongue lashing for refusing to refocus on you when you let him know it is important. Also, remember, he is still learning to master his inclinations.

[Bastianboy]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Oh, I don't think it is a big deal either way.

What is not a big deal? I must have missed something. I will definitely look into the other slip collar. I just don't want him to be a dog that always has to have prong on if we get him in other situations. Or me for that matter, I don't want to get to the point that I feel I CAN'T use any other collar. At this point, I can control him, it's just a lot harder on the shoulders with anything other than the prong. He's too much fun/too good at agility and herding to stop him now.

[Judi W]

I meant hex collar or other regular slip as far as big deal. When leaving the pinch, the slip is preferable as a dog cannot back out of it like they can a martingale. Also, you cannot tighten up a martingale if needed as it is limited.

Dog giving you some nonsense? Take that slip collar up behind the ears and keep it there and you will find you could steer around an elephant! That is how we tend to hold the dogs when we have a gate full of adult intact males and they are cheek to jowl against one another. Collar behind ears and hand right at collar. Then, if called for you can pivot around and get some "face" time for a few seconds.

[Bastianboy]

Ah, I understand. I'll have to try to get the regular slip. That sounds great. Hopefully he doesn't ever get elephant sized :)

[Judi W]

Whoooo, I hope not as well, but just in case, you'll know how to manage the guy

[BostonRott]

My girlz run naked in agility, as do most dogs. AKC allows a collar to be worn, USDAA does not. For those who compete in both,it's easier to use no collar. Also, I've seen many dogs catch their collar on the weave poles if they're really barrelling through, therefore, no collars on my dogs.

When attending a trial, you can't walk the dog in on a prong, so you definitely need some other means of control.

I use Lupine flat collars to walk around the trial site. Our trial leash is one of those choker-type leashes that looks like it's made out of climbing rope........I just slip it over her head before our run. Makes an awesome tug toy after the run.

When out for regular walks around home, hikes in the woods, or when roller blading dogs, I always have them in a prong. As you said, it's easier on my shoulders/arms. They love their prongs, they know they mean fun.

[Bastianboy]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

When attending a trial, you can't walk the dog in on a prong, so you definitely need some other means of control.

This is exactly the reason I want to be able to deal with him off of it. We have one of the rope leashes too and use it for agility class. It does work nicely and it's fun for him to run by my husband and slip his head through. It is a game.

[BostonRott]

I keep my dogs very close to me when walking about trials. I'm also not in the least timid about telling someone to get their dog out of my dog's face. One thing you'll find about agility trials is that there are tons of clueless "joe public" handlers who have trained with people who don't know the first thing about dogs or canine behaviour. You'll encounter many groups of clueless people with their dogs at the end of a 6ft line, gabbing away, not paying attention to the dog. You KNOW whose fault it will be if there's any discussion between the dogs.

[MontanaRott]

The type of lead Gretchen is talking about can be brought right up behind the ears as well, and gives you TOTAL control of that head. We use a lead like that, as well as a slip chain, and in some cases the prong. Phil uses Guerins show collar and lead when getting Guerin thru the gauntlet at shows the same way, collar right up behind the ears and they get thru all the dogs and people without incident. It it the placement of the collar more then the type. Not to mention a clear understanding on the dogs part that no type of monkey business is going to be tolerated.

[Judi W]

And boy is Gretchen right about the agility trials. Many of those dogs that are actually competing have never had any obedience and the handlers get them so revved up they can be wild! Not all are dog friendly either. That is a dangerous assumption.