Question on pinch collars

[Sargeant_C]

Sarge is getting bigger and bigger each day. And I spoke to our trainer about the pinch collar. She is one who does not put it down but she does not use them and so she said she could not train me properly on how to use one. She goes I would hate to show you the wrong thing. Okay with that being said I am limited on trainers and she is far the best here. I drive an hour just to get to her.
Okay so now is there a book or something I could educate myself on this collar? I do not just want to put one on and go waaahlaa now work. Any directions to the right track on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Dave Brown]

The way I was taught was the pinch collar should be applied snuggly just behind the ears and should be tight enough that it cannot move freely.

The leash is held with enough slack to create a quick "pop" with the wrist, not a pull or tug, but a pop for corrections.

The collar should not be left on the pup when not in training.

Those are the basics, the book that Tabitha ate "Dog training for Dummies" has a section on how to apply and use the pinch collar as well.

Good luck.

db

[Judi W]

The leash/collar corrections are applied in the same manner whether slip or pinch.

[fbkeays]

The pinch should fit so that it is held high on the neck, just under the jaw and goes behind the ears. Unfortunately it is hard to get the "just right" fit because of the size of the links. The smaller the size prong, the more of a correction, but then it could also bend and fail too.
I always smile when I see the big tough boys with their big rockwilder with the extra large pinch. It has less of a correction then the smaller ones.
Like all training tools, there is a time and place for the pinch. I can help or hinder depending on the application.

[poohbearsmom]

It's also important to note, that it's BEST if you can have someone show you how to use the collar for different applications... the rings can be placed at different places on the dog's neck (i.e. behind the right ear for heeling, under the chin for working on the 'down', etc...)....

It can also be used to build drive up, during heeling and such, rather than correct the dog... so, if you've been taught some subtlties of it's use, it can really be an excellent all around training tool.

Check with your trainer to see if she knows anyone who's REALLY good at using this... it would be useful to you.

Good luck,

[Sargeant_C]

I am still looking but so far no luck. Tis why I am lookin for books to help me out.

[Judi W]

BTW, it is perfectly possible to train a dog without a pinch collar regardless of the dog's or your size.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Judi W

BTW, it is perfectly possible to train a dog without a pinch collar regardless of the dog's or your size.

Judi's right. It may take a little more patience and ingenuity, but she's right... This is merely ONE tool, out of many.... the brain is the most important training tool...

[Patty1231]

I found a site on the internet, I think by typing in something like "prong collar fit" or "proper prong collar fit". It gave pictures of how and where a prong collar should fit and shows the chain part placed on the right side of the neck. Made it very clear exactly where to put it.

RottiMomCT gave me the great advice of purchasing the smaller link. Much better correction and hugely easier to fit properly. She also showed me exactly where it should fit - our members here are great!

[Sargeant_C]

- our members here are great!

I agree I get a lot of help by reading this site. And I agree that the collar is just one of many tools. I am just looking at different things becuz if I do not then I am failing Sarge big time. I became interested in the collar after reading so many posts here about them. Will it help me? Possibly. Do I need it maybe maybe not.
We are working on more socialization and in 7 days he starts his K9 good citizen class. Which will help with his obedience. Unfortunately we had an issue and it is a drawback for us. Three teenage boys were walking a neighbors dog and tried to get that dog to attack Sarge. He was in the park with three of my children including my son who is bigger then me. So my children gave Sarge the command to come and they walked home. The park is right behind us. One child yelled at hubby and hubby went running and screamed at these rotten kids. I also called the cop in our town and informed him he needs to put a stop to this which he did go talk to the boys, the boys parents and the owner of the dog. SO what is the problem. Now when we walk Sarge he growls at teenage boys. And I mean GROWL. We give the command NO and yank his lead hard. He then calms down and we go on our way. Now for the boys who are coming to our house he barks and most of them just say Hi Sarge in a friendly voice and bend down to have him come to them. And he is fine. I have a couple hand him a treat to show not all teenagers are bad. He is great with the normal kids that come here and with 5 kids I have a lot of extra kids that come here. But with ones who do not come here he goes off on them. I do not like this issue and I thought maybe with correcting with this collar then I can get the message thru him quicker.
I really appreciate the help and I will read some on the web and possibly see if it makes sense.

[Judi W]

He off leash? I would suggest that the children not be given the responsibility for him in public places, it is simply not fair to them. Whether the other kids were being jerks or not you are just plain lucky he came when called. Most places have leash laws and they need to apply to your dog as well. The Rottweiler is a bit much of a dog to have the responsibility put on children who, even though one might be big and strong, rarely have the level of authority that an adult has.

He saw your husband acting aggressively towards the kids and decided he wanted to join the team. Running at and yelling at kids in front of him was not the best decision. You'll now have to counteract that and the best way will be to make sure when you are out and about that you greet all of them in a friendly manner. Doesn't matter whether you know them, or like them or not, he has been given the wrong message and it is going to take a concentrated effort to reprograme that.

[Sargeant_C]

Sorry I should clarify. He is never off leash. And hubby yelled when the kids went inside with the dogs ( one dog was a neighbor of ours she has a small jack russell). The back yard and the park meet up together in the back yard very small alley between the two. Also Sarge is still a small pup so not full grown and I can still carry him. LOL So not full strength yet. My children said Come Sarge instead of yanking him and walking him to the front. They said Come Sarge and then Sarge came the three feet that was in between them and walked willingly with them. Yet when the jerk kids were trying to get the other dog to attack Sarge that is when Sarge became scared cuz they were being too aggressive and as you know dogs can sense that. So now he is somewhat spooked by kids.
We are working on socializing him more around decent kids and that is why I was looking into the collar. We know that we have to deal with idiots but there is no reason why Sarge should be scared around children without a good reason from that kid. That is why I am so happy he is joining two classes this month to work on more socialization and there is ton more people in that area where we take him to get him more aware that this world is full of people too.

[poohbearsmom]

Looking at your posts, by my estimation, your Sarge is about 5-6 months of age. Please do not use a pinch collar on such a young boy, it's not necessary AT ALL.

You should, by now, know what he will work for, and what he won't (food, toy)...
He's likely coming into a very goofy period in which lots of things will spook him.

I concur with Judi that it's not a good idea to allow your kids to be out and about with your boy without supervision. This is a lot of responsibility to hang on their shoulders, should some idiot try to make dog chow out of Sarge.

If "spooks" are not dealt with correctly, Sarge could be imprinted improperly, and fixing behavior due to what your boy perceives as bad experiences will be much more difficult than dealing with the boogy man properly to begin with.

Please get with your trainer, and discuss positive reinforcement, and confidence building, ASAP.

[Sargeant_C]

Sarge starts two of his classes this week for obedience. And she calls me back anytime I call her. And yes Sarge is only 5 months. We are still working with the basic commands on a daily routine with using treats for him and also the clicker. If anything I would use the collar on walks. And for nothing else.
Also with my son he is in love with Sarge and he has been studying up on the rotts along with me. He knows what the responsibilities are and he has worked with us with the training. And as I said before he is so much bigger then myself. It isnt like he is a small child with no knowledge on the breed. We do seperate training sessions so that Sarge will know to listen to all the family members. Although I do overrule them all I am top dog. But with all of my children I have them work with him by telling him to sit offer treat, come treat, shake hands treat sit up treat. stay offer treat. Then grab his favorite toy of the day and play fetch. When Sarge gets bigger I want him to play nice with the children and so they need some leadership over him. Not much but some.
I feel that if he is working with Sarge and learning about rotts then he is capable of taking him outside to go potty. And we have taught him now how to deal with dog fights and jerks. I feel he handled it right by bringin Sarge in right away and informing my hubby and myself.
But thanks for your help in this. I am just looking into new ways for now and in the future. Its a never ending learning process.