Off lead heeling

[ACERSMOM]

Anyone have any tricks for a very smart girl who knows when that lead if off?
I want to start trialing for her CD, but she is pretty darn clever with eveything that I have come up with for working off lead.

[TrishB]

Are you spitting food to her? I've been using marble string cheese. It doesn't melt in your cheek, you can bite off as many pieces as you like, and the leftovers can stay in their little plastic wrapper.

It takes a little effort to learn to spit with accuracy and for them to learn to catch it - but it's worked wonders for Parker and I.

[Patty1231]

My trainer offers these very light leads. Small wooden handle connected to an extremely thin line (like a wire) with a small hook to the collar. The thing is so light the dogs don't know it's on them but you can still give a correction. I haven't used one, myself, because Rocco does a better off-lead heal than on. Go figure. But those who have told me they work really well.

[diddybopper04]

If/when I have a dog who wants to ignore me, or make more than just a few mistakes off lead, I do 2 things.

The first thing I would do is go back and look at my foundation training. MANY people spoil off lead work by taking the lead off TOO SOON. If your dog is not SURE where heel position is, if the dog cannot come to you and find heel position from anywhere at all, and get it right the majority of the time, she needs more work on stationary games of "finding heel position". Teaching her the directional commands of "get up", "get back" "get off", and "get in" can also help. Examine your level of focused attention from the dog. In my opinion, most heeling problems are either attention problems, or the dog does not understand heel position.

The other thing I do if a dog ignores me, or leaves heel position, I use my HANDS to get the dog and bring it back. I might use a small tab on the collar, but my hands are my tool for bringing a dog back off lead. This works really nice because hands can always go in the ring with you.

[spoteet]

I never train Sajan off lead and during trials the off leash is his best performance. Most of the people I trian with do the same as do several of the top trainers giving seminars in schutzund. If the dog is never off leash, it never learns that it can get away with anything. The only time Sajan ever heels off leash is in a trial and as I stated earlier, it's his best heeling.

[ACERSMOM]

This girl knows exactly where heal position is and she likes the game of " get back, get up, get in, and she is great in "school" and at home. It is when there are new places to explore that she feels I am not as important as the new smells are. My instructors think she is wonderful because they only see her work in class. I try to work her at parks and new places so that I can correct this behavior. Her focus is also great as long as I have food.. but you have to keep her guessing and not have a routine as she seems to be one step a head of me at all times.

I was thinking of trying some kind of invisable lead like Patty1231 was speaking of and see if she figures that one out.

[diddybopper04]

Just remember, when you go in the ring you will not have that invisible lead. WATCH your dog. The SECOND she is fumbling or looking around, reach out slowly and deliberately, grab her by whatever you can get a hold of, and put her back in heel position.

When the dog gets out of heel position, in other words, if she were to sniff, lag, stop, etc while you are heeling off lead, what do you do now?

When you are MOVING in heel, and she gets out of position on lead, what do you do? What do you say to her?

If you EVER say "heel" to her when she is NOT in heel position, you are teaching her that where she WAS is heel position. That, IMO, is why the directional commands are so important.

It is also important not to move fast or in a threatening way when you go to get her with your hands to put her back in position. If you are paying attention closely, you should be able to do this before she gets out of your reach.

[frontierrots]

I train off lead when they are pups and add the leash last. Sounds backwards I know, but you don't get that leash dependence

As far as her "knowing" heel position.. IF she truely knew heel position and the heel command then she would not be "blowing you off"

Heel is one of those exercises where using a clicker or verbal marker with big payoff (food, tug, running, toys etc) truely pays off big. The dog is clearly told exactly what is being rewarded and it makes the off leash work much faster

Will my current pup, Bea, sometimes blow the offlead heel? Sometimes sure, but only for levels of distraction or situations that I KNOW we have not trained completely yet.

Do "I" think she knows what heel is? Well I could say yes of course, we have 2 CD legs with placements. BUT the actual answer is that she is about 85% trained in what heel is and isn't.

Do I consider her training complete? hell no. Bea is trained to know what heel is under certain criteria but incompletely educated about generalizing heel to mean heel no matter where and no matter what is going on. It's a pretty long process to educate the dog that heel means heel in our driveway, in your driveway, on grass, on dirt, indoors in our training barn, indoors at a trial.

Dogs , unlike humans, do not generalize well until trained to do so. To a dog heel on tar is a different exercise than heel on grass, is a different exercise than heel at Petco, is a different exercise than heel with kids running around screaming etc.. Each part must be trained for or you end up with incomplete education and you get owner's claiming their dog is "blowing them off" A dog that is "blowing you off" either is confused, is bored or is being pushed too fast under distractions they do not fully understand can be ignored . All 3 can be made worse with a dog that has not been encouraged to have good work ethic.

Modern successful competitors are realizing this and the best competitive dogs using modern techniques are producing some amazing dogs with great consistancy and complete understanding of exercises

Your dog sounds like you need to take a bunch of steps back and completely train position stationary and moving in a building or fenced yard where she can be loose. It sounds like her education was incomplete. This is not your fault as the majority of traditional trainers train that way and even some who claim to be using modern methods. What you want is a slow and complete learning process and eliminate any areas of confusion or misunderstanding. Light leads teach the dog nothing except that you attaching something to them means you can get them, they are a crutch for the handlers only

[Judi W]

Please remember that any transition equipment that has a hook on it still telegraphs messages from the handler. A piece of string (no hook) with a loop at each end, run through the live ring and the loops put through the handler's finger works very well and can be slipped out of the collar without any messages as to whether it is connected or not. (I have no hesitation to Diddy's method either). But there comes a time when compulsion enters any obedience exercise and that is when the dog knows what is required, but has not been taught it is not optional.

[ACERSMOM]

Diddybopper04, you are right I have asked her to HEEL when she is out of position, instead of my GET UP or GET BACK. It is just a bad habit on my part as she does know the other commands. As far as correcting her in the manner you described she is too quick for me. I have used a tab on her but she darts just out of my reach.

Sharon, I understand the training method you use, but I think it is too late for her as she already knows what she can do when the leash is off.

[ACERSMOM]

Thank everyone for your suggestions, help, and training experience as I am quite the amature when it comes to competitive OB. It is especially frustrating when the Dog is smarter than the trainer.

I train with a great group that have numerous Otch titles amoung them and they are a big help, but they train Goldens, Shelties, Aussies, and Poodles and they never see her pull her stunts as she loves to go to class and she is the perfect "angle girl" at school.

[Skip]

One of the the things that works for me is: Whenever I am healing Rocky (on-leash) I walk at a pretty brisk pace. I think this forces him to keep "involved" and in position. I only do a slow or medium pace for a very short amount of time, then right back to a brisk pace. I think the dog becomes aware that any leash corrections at a brisk pace are a little stronger just because of the momentum and it tends to keep him close and focused. I do very little off-leash heeling, but when I do it is at the same brisk pace and I think this helps keep the dog in position. Maybe it's me, but If I'm watching any obedience competition, I like the look of a dog and handler that's walking briskly instead of just plodding along.

[Patty1231]

Originally Posted by Skip

One of the the things that works for me is: Whenever I am healing Rocky (on-leash) I walk at a pretty brisk pace.

This is something our trainer stresses all the time with us. She feels it is an absolute requirement when working with big dogs. This is probably a lot easier for you, though, Skip, cause you've got a lot longer stride than I do!

[TrishB]

I have to add my vote to the moving briskly. I've been told to MOVE OUT! And to stop looking backwards. Even just the tilt of your head or a shift of your shoulders can broadcast that you're looking to 'help' your dog. You're not helping them - you're coddling them and enforcing the 'if you slow down, I'll look for you". Nope! Just move out, head up and straight.

Parker's reaction to that is - where're you goin' so fast? So he keeps up to see what's up.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by TrishB

I have to add my vote to the moving briskly. I've been told to MOVE OUT! And to stop looking backwards. Even just the tilt of your head or a shift of your shoulders can broadcast that you're looking to 'help' your dog. You're not helping them - you're coddling them and enforcing the 'if you slow down, I'll look for you". Nope! Just move out, head up and straight.

Parker's reaction to that is - where're you goin' so fast? So he keeps up to see what's up.

I too totally agree with the moving briskly. It makes HUGE difference when I am heeling with Akasha. When I am moving too slow I tend to lose her quickly. Akasha like Parker makes sure that she keeps up when I am moving briskly, she is worried she is going to miss out on something and doesn't want to be left behind

BTW, I do very little off lead heeling during training. I don't want her to learn that she can get away with things when the leash is off. When I do any off lead work I make sure that she is always close and at the first sign that she is losing interest, I do something to bring her back to me, like maybe a change of pace or direction and as soon as she is in heel position and I have her complete attention she gets her reward. Her off lead heeling is actually much better than her on lead heeling. Of course part of that is due to my nervousness in a trial situation.