Personal Training Session Disappointment!

[rms78645]

Deuce had his 1st class last night and I left the place feeling really depressed. He's 18 weeks old and the Puppy classes kept filing up on me so the gal suggested a one on one session. She said I would get more from it then 4 weeks of class. My 16 year old video taped, thank goodness, because we covered alot of things. The trainer decided that he was mouthing more than she liked and it was time to address it. And she brought him gently to her lap so he was sitting, facing away and she was sitting on the bench. He hated it. She said this is what replaced the alpha roll and everytime he swung his head back or grumbled she bitter appled him, 3 or 4 sprays. He was showing his teeth a little, the butthead. She wanted me to know that he needed to be able to be handled by people he didnt know, ie the vet and so it was imperative that we address this.
All the other things we went over he did really well. Sit and stay and down. She doesnt want me to use his cinch collar yet, until we really need it. Whats that mean????
I guess I have would like to hear your opinions. I can pull him unto my lap like that w/o problem. So how do I train him to not yap off to strangers? Do i recruit some stranger? Do i have my kids try it? And I have never heard any of you guys using Bitter Apple. We are going into obedience as soon as a class opens up. I was sad that he failed that test I guess. Is that a normal way to feel? Her comment was that he was quite opinionated. She also said that my 16 year old way of playing with him could be some of the cause of this and she showed him an better way to play, with a pull toy and that is was to be put up when they were done. SO i am glad he heard that, I had been saying the same thing to him.
Sorry, I know I covered alot of stuff but I was overwhelmed. If his mouthing isnt taken care of this week she wants us to come back.
Your thoughts???? Thanks

[frontierrots]

He sounds like a normal pup to me that needs to grow up and get some training

The bitter apple thing is common but a very bad idea. It is an eye and mucous membrane irritant and is toxic. I have the MSDS sheet on it here. The company has always said it is a CHEW deterrant NOT to be sprayed in their faces or mouths

[Judi W]

Excuse me? I thought this was a training session, not a test? Why would you be disappointed that he had some things to learn? Did you think he knew it all? Silly, relax and enjoy. You know there are things he and you all need to learn. that is the whole point of training............

[Patty1231]

1) As far as getting more out of a 1-1 than 4 weeks of class - socialization is the most important thing right now so I don't agree with that at all.
2) As far as getting used to people handling him (like the vet), I've never seen a vet place a dog on their lap on examine it. Some dogs just don't like being picked up, particularly by someone they don't know.
3) Cinch collar for training is required, in my opinion, to give a proper correction.
4) As far as being opinionated - hey, he's a ROTTWEILER!!

About the only thing I agree with here is how your 16-year-old plays with the dog (and I'm assuming this was rough housing with the dog).

The above is just my opinion and from my own experience, as I am still learning, too.

[rms78645]

I do need to relax~! I guess I wanted her to tell me he was gifted! hehe
So should I use lemon water? that was also suggested instead of bitter apple.

I thought the same thing about the lap thing. Should he be happy about strangers handling him in that way?
She raises labs and dobbies and she said her labs can run and jump around people and no one is offended. As soon as her dobbies do it, panic sets into people. I know this. I know hes a rottie and , therefore, feared.
I have taken Obedience before and never have we done that to our dogs.
She gave me some handouts and they are basically NILIF stuff. Making him work for everything. And thats fine.
As far as socialization goes, he goes everywhere with us. He is around 3 other dogs pretty regularily but hes not on lead and being forced to listen to us as he will be in a class setting. So I imagine when he gets into OB hes going to be a spaz cause he'll be so excited.
My 16 year old likes to have Deuce chase him around the house and then fall om his dog bed, covering his face and let the dog pull his hair! he has braids and I think my son is retarded! hehe. Deuce loves it but its a bad habit. I got on the floor and he charged over to me and cracked me in the head, cause hes clumsy, and then got on my back and I couldnt get him off. I was looking for something under the couch and he thought I was playing. I had to work really hard to move him and hes only 54 lbs.! I told my son about it but you know how teenagers are, he had to hear it from someone else. He better not do it anymore.
I wanted to learn how to correct properly with the cinch collar. That was one of the reasons I went to this. Should I wait til ob or try another 1 on 1 at a different place?

[frontierrots]

Why do you need a choke/cinch collar at all? Why do ou need to squirt him?

he is a baby with no training. He has no clue what you want. You cannot correct for a behavior not yet learned

He needs lots of exercise indoors and out, he needs training with rewards for doing right. Tired and mentally stimulated pups are good pups. Bored and stagnating pups are hell on wheels

Training handling and nails? Correct with a firm "AHH" and reward quiet behavior with treats. He is a NORMAL Rottweiler

Too crazy in the house and jumping on your back signal either not enough exercise or that he needs a break in his crate. And yes son needs to quit encouraging that

I suggest reading "AFter you get your puppy" and "Culture clash" they will be a big help to you

[rms78645]

Thats what I do, I am firm and tell him no, and he stops. Then I tell him good boy. She thinks he needs to be sprayed everytime hes in that lap position and he mouths or flops his head back or gets mouthy. Well, he doesnt do it to me.

When we trim his nails my son gives him treats to distract him and its all good.

I went with the intention of training. I guess she feels hes too agressive. But he wasnt agressive at all until she sat him on her lap in that "new alpha roll" thing. He didnt like it at all. I did it there and at home and he squirmed a bit and that was it, no growling or yapping at all. and that was the 1st thing she did with him. He mouths still but its not hard at all. Never was. Hes never as much as scratched me. She said its time to nip it in the bud and to use the spray. I dont know. I am confused I guess. I will get those books. Thanks

[Luvs]

I think I would find a different trainer. Spraying bitter apple in a puppies face that has no idea what you want from it seems very cruel to me. Group classes will benefit you both a great deal. Not only will you both learn, but the socialization is invaluable.

[rms78645]

Yeah, I think I will. This isnt the place the breeder recommended and maybe I now know why.

[ILVROTTIS]

I sure would not want someone spraying bitter apple in my pups face either

[rms78645]

It was in his mouth. alot of it though. yuck

[frontierrots]

The MSDS for Bitter Apple (in case you wanted the info) says:

Swallowing: slightly toxic. Ingestion of quantity may cause drowyness and loss of conciousness. Stomach cramps, pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea may also occur

Skin Absorption: widespread and prolonged exposure may result in absorption of harmful amounts of material, particularly in infants leading to the signs and symptoms as described for swallowing.

Inhalation: LOW concentrations may cause mild irritation of nose and throat. Concentrations above tlv may result in headache and drowsiness

Skin Contact: prolonged contact can cause local redness and dryness with cracking of the skin

Eye Contact: liquid causes slight to moderate irritation with possible corneal injury

Now that's something I want sprayed in my puppy's face and mouth! NOT! :(

[rms78645]

wow, she squirted like 3-4 squirts everytime and it was about 9 times. man....

[diddybopper04]

FWIW, I have never ever used any sort of spray to deter mouthing.

Never needed to.

Until about 12 weeks, I am slightly more tolerant of gentle mouthing, and do more redirection, depending on the temperament of the puppy.

After about 12 weeks, if a puppy puts teeth on me, I take it calmly, gently, and firmly by the loose skin under the chin, look it in the eye, and quietly but very seriously say, "KNOCK IT OFF". I wait until I see signs of submission, such as relaxation of the body, not making eye contact, licking lips, ears back. I do nothing else, except hold still, until I get these signs. Then I gently release the puppy, give it an appropriate thing to mouth or chew on, and go back to whatever I was doing.

KNOCK IT OFF is my firmest verbal correction. I use it only when I mean real business and the dog is to stop whatever it's doing IMMEDIATELY.

I have 3 levels of verbal correction. The first is Ah Ah, or leave it. The second is That will do. And the third one, right before all the wrath of the Gods comes down, is KNOCK IT OFF.

[hcelsa]

There is a reason that your breeder recommended a different trainer (and I know I sent you at least one PM with recommendations as well).

In this area we have a lot of folks that profess to be dog trainers, but are pretty crappy trainers. You want to train with someone who actually has a clue. The good ones are few and far between, so you must be selective!

I'd forget about going back to this person, and instead contact one of the recommended trainers.

JMHO,