Now he fights me when i grab his collar

[jenny27360]

Hi Everyone. Is me again.

I took everyones advice and put him one a leash in the house, so i would have control of him around my company, i also keep the leash on him alot when im not holding it so that he will get used to it.

However, he is not doing so good with it. When i tell him to come to me and he sees that im am going to grab his collar to put the leash on him, he flips on his back and tries to grab my arm with his paws(scraching me all to peices) and tries to bite my hand. it almost impossible to get the leash on him while he is on the ground, so i have got to pick him up(which is not easy to do) and calm him down and then i hold his collar straight up(while were sitting down) so he cant roll over and put the leash on him very quickly.

And then when i have the leash on him, he bites it and wont leave it alone.
Now his attention is on the leash, not my company WHAT A MESS!!!!

WHAT DO I DO NOW????

Jenny

[Black Tie Mom]

With Beau I usually try to associate any training with either fun, physical touching or training treats. It didn't take him long to figure out that if I was clipping a leash on him that he was going outside with the 'big' dogs for a bit of a walk. When he is on the leash (flexi) outside I usually wait until he is distracted with something then call his name and 'Come'. His reward is usually tummy rubs or dried liver treats. I think if you can associate your dog's experiences with the leash with something positive that you will be able to turn the whole leash experience into something to look forward to.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by jenny27360

WHAT DO I DO NOW????

Jenny, he needs to be in a training class. I know you said you don't have the funds in your other thread, so let me ask you this....If he needed a vet, would you also say you don't have the funds? I certainly hope not. Training classes for a Rottweiler are every bit as important as proper veterinary care. Call your local SPCA and ask if they have low cost training classes available. I'm sure you can find a class that is reasonably priced and it is important that you do. You need to learn how to train him and that is what a class will help you do.

Originally Posted by jenny27360

When i tell him to come to me and he sees that im am going to grab his collar to put the leash on him, he flips on his back and tries to grab my arm with his paws(scraching me all to peices) and tries to bite my hand.

This is an avoidance technique that dogs specialize in. I have a feeling that your approach might be all correction and no reward...any truth there? Always have a pocketful of very small treats (this can be plain old kibble, if he likes it). When you call him to you, give him a small treat as a reward for coming. Ask him to sit, give him another small treat for a reward when he does (he knows sit, right?). By now his mind is on treats. Clip his leash on, give him another small treat and a "Gooood boy!" as long as he allows you to do it without the antics. Take him for a walk, even if it's 100 feet down the street and back, as soon as you attach the leash. Show him the leash means he gets to go somewhere, too, and soon he'll see it as a good thing and he'll be begging you to put it on him.

Also, you can leave a "tab" on him all the time. That's a short piece of rope (6-12") tied to his flat buckle collar that will give you something to take hold of (as opposed to "grabbing") when he needs to be redirected or corrected.

[Judi W]

Jenny,
If you want to teach a dog come happily to you when you call him then offering him a treat each and every time will have a happy pup coming when called. You seem to have been at odds with this pup since its arrival and that has not improved. I am going to quote from my post from your earler thread:

" If you are not confident ...... please place the pup in another home where he will be welcomed ........."

Please just place this pup while he is still young and cute and will be wanted by someone else. There is no happiness for you, your children and certainly for this pup. In a couple of more months, it will be darn difficult to find someone who will want him. He will have established a habit of seeing people as adversaries, certainly be "less cute" and his behaviors entrenched. There is nothing wrong with simply saying you've made a mistake, but there is a great deal wrong in keeping a pup that you are at odds with and show no understanding of each other. I don't know what you remember seeing your dad do in training the family GSD when you were a child, or if you remember correctly, or if this dog simply requires different methods, but doing it on the fly is not working. Get this dog placed and start looking for a home for him right now.

[jenny27360]

Judi, im sorry but that is not an option....bruce is happy..and this family loves him very much..and he loves us very much..this is his home!

you have never had any problems out of a pup before? of course you have.
I guess im making it sound worse than it is..he listens tyo me very well..i always give him a treat when he comes to me..he just dont like the fact that he has to wear a leash in his home...he has no problem wearing a leash outside..just inside..it is new to him..2 days judi!! and he made a lot of improvement tonight...i give him a treat for come and then i gave him his bone and i put the leash on him
and when have i been at odds with bruce before???
when i first got him , everyone was telling me that rotts are very mean and that they will turn on their owner, and that they are not good dogs to have and a bunch of other bull crap.
you have to ask questions to find out the truth, and noe of that was the truth.
Bruce is my freind and i love him very much...he is just a puppy and he can be obnoxious at times and i correct him and he knows when he does wrong because i do just that "correct him". he is so easy to train, but he is just a puppy and i cannot expect him to act like a grown dog, now can i. You cant expect a child to act mature when the child is not mature...why? because it just a child!! puppys and children have a lot of simularities...and you should know that

Just because you have a problem with a pup, you have to find him a new home?? i dont think so...i look at him somewhat like my third child
I have problems out of my children everyday(messes, wont do what their told..etc.)
that dont mean im going to give them up
come on judi, i could have used something else becides that..that was just plain mean..i wonder how many pups you have given up because they have not listened to you everytime
and as far as the trainning classes..he starts in august

[Judi W]

None! But I have never felt as concerned about them as you appear to be with this one.

My intent was not to be mean, but that the entire family, including yourself, the children and dog, should be able to live happily together without it being a fight or such a state of confusion. I am pro-dog and pro-family and matching them for compatibility is important.

[HerculesMomma]

I know it might be hard to understand from the people giving advice, but after having my dog for almost 6 months now I totally understand their concern on your behalf. And that is all it really is - concern.

All I knew when I went looking for a dog was that I wanted a big dog. I'm just partial to them. I found one online, said his family went through a divorce and had to give him up, but was raised with kids and was a good dog. So it happened to be a Rott, big deal. I got him and brought him home.

Then I experienced the backlash of the outside world's opinion on Rottweilers. I found this forum, and I think it actually scared me even more at first. I admit, I got in way over my head. The luxury that I have is my only commitment to anything besides myself and my job is my dog. I can spend whatever time I need to get his big behind in line. But he is clearly not a happy go lucky lab and in my opinion, he is not for the faint of heart. I am lucky there is a part of my personality that is persistent and aggressive when the situation warrants it. If I was anything less, I really think I would be in real trouble. We won't even get into how uneducated I was with Rotties, let alone dogs.

So when I brought him home and if I tried to take a ball out of his mouth he growled at me. We moved past that onto any high value item such as a rawhide - if I tried to touch it he would growl at me. If he saw my reflection in a mirror, he would growl and bark at me. I've had him growl at a stranger who tried to hug him, I recently had him almost bite someone who tried to hug him while my back was turned. He will growl at strangers if they try and take his ball. He growled at a handler in a training class that grabbed him by the collar. I brought home a full grown, didn't get fixed until 2 years old male into my home and it has been no picnic. Since I've read at least a dozen books on Rottweilers and/or dog behavior and training. I've spent countless hours here trying to get educated, trying to understand why he does what he does.

I'm not saying Bruce is going to grow up and be like this, nor am I saying you should get rid of him (nor am I saying I have a bad dog). But I do now understand why many shelters will not adopt out a Rottie to unexperienced owners. They truely are a unique kind of dog. So please don't take some of the members concerns as anything personal. It is just a concern that everyone in your family, including Bruce, is in the best scenario possible.

[jenny27360]

thank you for the post herculesmom.
I shouldnt have took it personal, but i did. I know bruce is happy in our home. He is a very happy dog. he follows me everywhere i go, what ever i do, he is right there with me, he loves to go places with me. he will jump right in the back of the expidention and go with me. he loves to play with my kids, he just likes to knibble, but he is learning. he has never shown any aggression towards anyone.
he is a very smart dog, and everything that i teach him, he learns very quick. he will even ring his bell when he has to go outside....it seems like if he didnt like it here he would just piss in the house..lol

jenny

[airwalk]

Training, training, training... I don't think from what I read that the dog has been properly trained. First start the training on leash, so if he ignores you, you can force the command, and it's easy to force it on leash. Don't give him commands off leash yet, because it'll be hard to force him into doing something off leash and he can ignore you and get away with it (after a while ignoring becomes a habit, and a hard one to break). Try giving the command just once, if he doesn't do it make him!! Basically you need proper training if you want him to take you seriously.

[Judi W]

This pup is only about 4 months old.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by airwalk

....if he ignores you, you can force the command....it's easy to force it on leash......it'll be hard to force him into doing something

For crying out loud! No one is going to raise a happy, cooperative puppy through force! Force what? A command he doesn't even know yet? Training should be FUN for the dog, as well as the owner, and while you CAN get them to do what you want through force, why would they have any interest in interacting with you if their experience of you is the sum total of being forced to do something by you for some unknown reason that results in nothing but confusion for the dog? Encourage? yes. Redirect? of course. Reward? absolutely. If the only direction a puppy gets is from punishment, any puppy with half a brain is going to avoid you like the plague. A smart dog needs a smart owner, and Rottweilers are smart. The point is to teach your puppy how to use his inclinations and abilities to please you, in a proactive way, not just wait until he does something "wrong" and then try to force the life out of him.

Originally Posted by airwalk

Basically you need proper training if you want him to take you seriously.

Absolutely. That is done by learning how to establish a leadership position through fairness, firmness, consistency, and a basic understanding of canine behavior. It requires time, attention, respect for what he is, and consideration of where he's at in his understanding of what is expected of him. That is what we learn in training classes.

[HerculesMomma]

Originally Posted by jenny27360

he will even ring his bell when he has to go outside....it seems like if he didnt like it here he would just piss in the house..lol

jenny

Be careful for what you wish for! Since we've hit the 6 month mark (honeymoon period is over for a rescue dog) Hercules has been pissing in the house!!! He's even done it when I've only been gone for 3 hours, so it's not a bathroom issue - he's testing the waters. Like I said, Rotties are not for the faint of heart! You'll get excellent advice here and already have, hopefully you can continue with Bruce based upon the advice given. Good luck!

[airwalk]

[quote=[B]moondog[/b]]For crying out loud! No one is going to raise a happy, cooperative puppy through force! Force what? A command he doesn't even know yet? Training should be FUN for the dog, as well as the owner, and while you CAN get them to do what you want through force, why would they have any interest in interacting with you if their experience of you is the sum total of being forced to do something by you for some unknown reason that results in nothing but confusion for the dog?

And if he ignores you?? Will you ask them nicer?? Maybe even beg them? ?lol... First of, she didn't mention that the dog was a 4mnt old puppy!! It's normal for puppies to be uncomfortable on leash. It takes some time for them to get used to it, and ofcourse he needs to know what the command means before anything! However, in my case i don't ask the dog what to do, I tell him. It works much better...Forcing is just for the first couple of days of training, NOT a lifetime!

[K9-man]

Originally Posted by airwalk

Forcing is just for the first couple of days of training,

I disagree. Force training a young pup is for Neanderthals.

These techniques will give you the desired results while keeping the puppy in a positive frame of mind, always ready to learn more.

Originally Posted by moondog

Always have a pocketful of very small treats (this can be plain old kibble, if he likes it). When you call him to you, give him a small treat as a reward for coming. Ask him to sit, give him another small treat for a reward when he does (he knows sit, right?). By now his mind is on treats. Clip his leash on, give him another small treat and a "Gooood boy!" as long as he allows you to do it without the antics. Take him for a walk, even if it's 100 feet down the street and back, as soon as you attach the leash. Show him the leash means he gets to go somewhere, too, and soon he'll see it as a good thing and he'll be begging you to put it on him.

Originally Posted by moondog

establish a leadership position through fairness, firmness, consistency, and a basic understanding of canine behavior. It requires time, attention, respect for what he is, and consideration of where he's at in his understanding of what is expected of him. That is what we learn in training classes.

[diddybopper04]

At the risk of upsetting the apple cart, if I were presented with an unruly illmannered juvenile puppy dog who thought way too much of himself, I WOULD take him down a few notches. Force in training is, to me, different from establishing yourself as alpha in the puppy's eyes, and taking control of the situation. Depending on how leniently he has been raised to this point, and the level of his actual dominance persona, I would use methods to establish my dominance accordingly. I would not HESITATE to dominate and/or physically (by postures) and mentally intimidate this puppy so that he learns very quickly where he stands with me. This is how it works in dog society. A dominant dog does not use treats and niceties to put an insubordinant rude dog in it's place. I would establish MY place with him in seconds. Same as his mother would. And then we could be very very good friends, and have some positive training.

FYI, Jenny, I am fairly nearby you. I could arrange to be in your area if you care for a little one on one help with your puppy.