If you don't catch an Adult Dog "In the Act" Can you still Correct Them?

[Bucky's Mom]

I asked this question in a different thread and received this reply:

Originally Posted by Judi W

I'm talking about adults, not puppies or dogs in training but adults who know the rules and have chosen to disregard them. Well Lisa, that is a rumor promulgated by dogs. I believe that if there is obvious evidence, I can take that dog to the evidence and fuss at the evidence (not the dog) and show the dog that I am very unhappy. As long as dogs have convinced those responsible that unless the human sees them there are no consequences, they are very happy dogs indeed. All it means is sneak around the corner or wait until no one is looking and do whatever your little heart desires. This idea originated when one very smart dog whispered the thought into its sleeping master's ear and inserted a subliminal message. The naive owner then believed it was a message planted in his mind by god and like all the newly religious, spread the gospel far and wide until it became "common wisdom" believed by (almost) all and rarely questioned.

Yes, the species dog is very clever indeed.

So that means if Bucky got in the trash because a stupid human in the house left it in his reach, I could point at the garbage strewn all over the place and say "Bad Dog!!"?

(or just yell at the stupid human who left it there)

[Judi W]

Well, you can do this if you like, but get no support from me, so no, I don't think so. I would point to myself and say "stupid Lisa" (it can't be "stupid Judi" because I don't ever have garbage out. I consider this something initiated by you, not the dog. so hahahaha, you get no support from me on something like this. Why would you ever have garbage out?

What I am disputing is that dogs have no association with previous experience. If that was the case, how does training work? How does my dog remember scent articles from one training session to the next? How does the dog remember something it was corrected for in the past and avoid repeating it?

[Bucky's Mom]

I understand (and BTW it was the "other" stupid human who left the garbage within reach, not me )

So if i find a chewed item that was left reachable it is still human error, what type of "bad actions" ARE correctable after the fact?

[Judi W]

Well, pissing in the house for sure. Dumping a plant and throwing dirt all over the floor also. Neither is an irresistable thing.

Chewed item (non-food) for an adult I would sure as heck show it to them and raise hell. Non-food items should not be irresistable for adults and certainly not destroyed. They've been taught that from childhood just like not using the house as a toilet. Carrying around doesn't bother me.

Although some dogs can resist food items nicely, many cannot. Food items includes garbage:). So putting them in an unaccessible place only makes sense. Be reasonable in all.

[lblax]

so maybe there is hope fotr bucky

[mmgy]

I've always figured that any 1-2-3 year old dog is pretty much as smart as a 2 year old human, and that means they can withstand, and should understand, a good talking to/hollering at, in that stern voice. And a time out. Plus, we have a blanket rule: you don't tear up ANYTHING in the house. Shredding is ONLY allowed in the yard. And we just make sure that happens.

I'm turning into my mother.

[Bucky's Mom]

Learn something new everyday here, thanks!

[Judi W]

I'm thinking Bucky is going to blame me for ruining his life as perhaps he's been riding that "didn't catch me in the act" bus quite happily till now.

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I'm thinking Bucky is going to blame me for ruining his life as perhaps he's been riding that "didn't catch me in the act" bus quite happily till now.

Yes he has, but I won't tell him the new rules are YOUR fault, I'll tell a "leetle birdy" told me

[damp]

Just some examples:

My first dog, a boxer, get the habit at about 3 - 4 years old to “answer” the phone when we was not home. (You can’t imagine how many feet a spiral cord is when pulled out to full length )

We did this and that and NOTHING solved his desire to talk on the phone.

Then I decided to catch him in the act. It was long before the cell phone was invented, so hubby vent to town to call home from a phone box and I was in the hall lurking through the keyhole. (Yes I felt a bit perverted ) Rico snored and the phone rang. He took a look around the living room…“like” oh, no one is home so I better answered the phone”. I flung up the door and said “many words following each other in very rapid succession”. He dropped the phone and I bet he believed it was “Jesus calling him”!
Well problem fixed, and every time after that, when the phone rang, he stooped left the room, and I told him… yes you better go … no one called your number!

He also thought it was funny to chew up the tire on my daughter’ bicycle, he learned it was not a chewing toy even I never caught him in the act.

[Judi W]

Well, an excellent example of.............????????

The dog had never been taught that he should "not" answer the phone. He was just trying to help. Once he had it explained that he was not needed to take messages, he didn't do that anymore whether he was being watched or not. This applies to tearing up stuff and pissing in the house and - almost everything.

I had a girl who thought she could garden indoors when it was hot outside one day. After a good tongue lashing, she had to do a down stay with her nose 1/2 inch from the dirt for an hour accompanied with big scowls and snarls from me every time I walked past. That dirt certainly looked less inviting after that and she did not repeat. I was not home when she decided to unplant my vine, but I had plenty of evidence to work with.

[damp]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Well, an excellent example of.............????????

Just an example as I said… "we did this and we did that", but never taught him.

[Judi W]

Oh, I think this is a great story and a perfect example of allelomimetic behavior. A very smart dog! I'm keeping this story in my log of smart dogs. Actually, look at it this way. If a dog is smart enough to know that when the phone rings someone picks it up, doesn't that enforce the idea that they could just possibly be smart enough to know they did bad when shown the evidence?

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Oh, I think this is a great story and a perfect example of allelomimetic behavior.

Oh yeah - that was EXACTLY what I was gonna say

NOT!

May I ask for an explanation of that term please?

[Judi W]

Great word huh? You can add it to the list with piloerection. It means mimic behavior. Puppies raised with humans will often mimic the human behavior. (one very good reason why strong dogs should not be owned by timid people)

Many service dogs are encouraged to answer the phone, but I've not found a single one that can vaccum.