Positive Re-Enforcement and dog training and Marine Mammal Training

[kclinch]

Interesting topic. Once very dear to my heart.

Living in South Florida, and being a scuba diver, and totally in love with the water, I find myself visiting dolphin facilities occassionally, and doing their "TRAINER FOR THE DAY" routine.

You know what I find amazing: I have never seen or heard of a dolphin or whale or sea lion running out in the middle of the road and getting hit an killed by a car. Or biting the mail man. Or the meter reader. Or stealing 5 lbs of chicken off the kitchen counter.

And if they don't perform, no ones life will depend on it.

However, if my 85lb rottie doesn't heel, I could get seriously injured. Or if she jumps on someone, namely my 95 yr old grandmother, they could be seriously injured.

Now, what happens when you have trained your dog with all positives, and no negative punishment when the reward of chasing the squirrel down the street, where it gets hit and killed by a car, far outweighs the thought of any food you might have?

And what happens when you don't have a food motivated dog? None of my dogs are food motivated. I guess I could starve them for a week, but I think I would simply rather give them a leash correction and be done with it.

Now, there are people out there who say that they use operant conditioning, but did you know that Operant conditioning has 4 factors to it?
1) Positive Reinforcement(give the dog something that it wants for doing what you ask or want it to do)(IE, a pat on the head, a kind word, a treat, a play session, etc...)
2) Negative Reinforcement(doing something the dog doesn't like until it complies with what you want, such as stepping on the leash until the dog lies down, and then that pressure on the leash goes away the instant the dog compies)
3) Positive punishment(doing something the dog doesn't like when it does something you don't like, such as a leash correction for refusal to sit)
4) Negative punishment(Taking something away from the dog that he likes, such as food or toys or attention.

Now, let's say your dog is jumping on you. You have several solutions to that.

You can
a) Positively reward him for sitting --positive reinforcement
b) Stand on his leash, so that he can't jump--negative reinforcement
c) Give him a leash correction or use an air horn---positive punishment
d) ignore the behavior until it goes away(sometimes by pushing the dog off or acknowledging the behavior that in and of itself is rewarding to the dog)--negative punishment.


Just some thoughts.
Karla Clinch
Certified Dog Trainer

[groupieindenial]

Yeah, I had to bite my tongue when the trainer last night was explaining the positive reinforcement and comparing it to Dolphins. I wanted to say but my dog is not a dolphin! A dolphin is already in a safely enclosed tank. I don't think I'll agree with everything they'll have to say, but I try to learn as much as I can, and utilize the techniques that work with my pup.

[kclinch]

And utilizing what works for you is the key to dog training.

There is no one way to train a dog. And if someone says there is, I would run the other way.

Dogs are individuals and each one is handled differently during training.

Eclectic dog trainers are the ones with many, many tools in their box. And know when to use the one that is necessary to get the job done.

Later,
Karla Clinch
Certified Dog Trainer.

[Judi W]

A soul sister. One who knows the difference between species and can identify a canine, horse and dolphin! Karen Pryor and her acolytes have much to answer for. Of course, if dogs lived long enough and belonged to VERY patient owners, one could perhaps subscribe to the theory, however, I'd rather get on with things than wait and hope the dog "offered" the desired action........

[Mick Trainer]

It has been for years that I have discussed that positive re-enforcement is a training tool and not a training system same as compulsion.

And for the record as someone who has been behind the scenes at places that train Dolfinds they will tell you outright that one day the dolphin not do anything it is told to do. It performs only when it chooses (how can you compel a dolphin?).

Mick.

[kclinch]

Originally Posted by Mick Trainer

It has been for years that I have discussed that positive re-enforcement is a training tool and not a training system same as compulsion.

And for the record as someone who has been behind the scenes at places that train Dolfinds they will tell you outright that one day the dolphin not do anything it is told to do. It performs only when it chooses (how can you compel a dolphin?).

Mick.

I don't know, Mick(please note, this is dripping with sarcasm, not directed at you....) Karen Pryor threw a lawn chair at a dolphin once....Wicked grin.

You don't. Compel a dolphin, you simply take your toys and leave the sandbox and come back another day.

Karla Clinch
Certified Dog Trainer

[kclinch]

And for the record:

I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TRAINERS WHO CHOSE TO TRAIN WITH ALL POSITIVES OR COMPULSION.

What I have a problem with, is trainers who assume that their way is the only way, and that dogs are better off dead than to every be corrected. And trainers who aren't willing to admit that their way might not always work in every situation.

Because no one training method will work with every dog in every situation.

Period.

Karla CLinch
Certified Dog Trainer