lack of concentration

[bettyboo]

sorry if this is long but i need help.
Merlin is 2 years old, we do conformation shows,agility,flyball,obedience, he is my first rottie but i don't know where i have gone wrong, the only way i can describe the problem is he is very dog orientated, he does not want to attack them he just only wants to play and greet them , i don't mind this but when we are working it is like he pulls the shutters down on me, this is an example
placed in a recall position, and there are some owners with dogs waiting on their turn at the other side of the hall, i tell him to wait and leave him when i about turn to face him, he is watching the other dogs i call him the first time he is so focused on the other dogs he does not hear me so i will give a tug on the leader which brings him back to focus on me at the same time he gives a grumble for being broken out of his trance.

next example
will be doing agility and as we are first there the trainer gives us extra time he flys around the agility course and hits all the contacts and listens to turns, then someone will turn up with a dog and he will leave the course and go to sniff the other dog,i can call him and call him but he just seems to shut down, i have to go and get him.

my obedience instructor says he is good enough for obedience competion but the problem of being to interested in other dogs is baffling us, we have tried making him hungry before obedience etc and feeding him in training,but this did not work he still switched off, tried toys, tried letting him mingle with other dogs before he worked this did not work,
where have i gone wrong,when he does switch off .

[Judi W]

You might never have enough motivating things that outweigh his chosen focus, however, you certainly should be demanding that he pay attention and show respect regardless of the party he thinks is happening elsewhere. He is not a little puppy any more and basically he is blowing you off. Time to make him responsible for his part in this. Remember, it is called "obedience", not "if-you-don't-have-anything-better-to-do".............

[Jaegergirl]

bettyboo, maverick just turned 2 in april and i'm having the exact same problem with him. they call him the "class clown" at class and i'm extremely frustrated with him. when he is "on" and in focus with me, he's amazing..when he's not... oy!!!!

while i don't have any advice for you, i feel your pain. our trainer has told me several times that maverick is an awesome working dog (one of the best she's seen in a long time) but that attention or lack there of, it's what's killing us. he knows darn well what 'watch me' means yet he choses not to. he's not aggressive with any of the dogs, he just wants to pay attention to them and not me most of the time. i'll be anxious to hear the advice you get because i'm quite frustrated.

[Jaegergirl]

you certainly should be demanding that he pay attention and show respect regardless of the party he thinks is happening elsewhere.

how exactly would one accomplish this?? it's great a concept and one that i agree with but how do you make it happen? leash corrections for lack of attention and praise for attention don't seem to cut it.

[Judi W]

Just a few of my opinions on the matter. If you have been accustomed to admiring and stroking (whether physically or mentally or both) your beautiful boy because he is so darn sweet, and sooooo handsome and he is breathing in and out - stop it! Stop all the fawning and start treating him like a young adult with responsibilities to be met. That is the beginning and should be the rule 24-7 if you are going to work a male Rottweiler. Then you start making your obedience, obedience. Doesn't mean he will learn to hate it trust me. It does mean that he will start to develop a work ethic and some responsibility. He will still think about and probably attempt to play camp run-a-muck now and then, but when he does you should dish out some real unpleasant consequences. He can practice waiting at the gate of training fields as dogs come in and behaving like a gentleman. You pop, turn, heel a few steps and then turn back towards the gate. Use your big voice when you correct. If you naturally have a timid voice, ask someone to give you voice lessons. (it is not volumn, but tone) If you don't "sound" like someone who should be obeyed, you will not be. I've had many a student learn to use voice and it makes a big difference. If you don't have an authorative voice, develop one. Don't give him (either of the "hims") an opportunity to run off and molest the other dogs. Quit excusing him because "he only wants to play" or that he is not aggressive. The owners and other dogs are entitled to be there without their dog being molested by yours. (if you think of it that way, it might help you clarify the picture). You do not want to be the unwelcomed member of the training group that everyone hates to see coming because you don't control your dog. A dog that is doing this has not earned off lead privileges. Do your agility runs well before any other dogs arrive and then get your lead on. If for some reason you are neglectful and you dog gets away, get on him immediately, put on the leash and correct him with emphasis all the way back to where you were and accompany this with a good tongue lashing.

You must mean it or it will not happen. No one wants to see a full sized Rottweiler charging towards their dog and one day the other dog is going to object (rightfully so) and no one will care if you say your dog did not have bad intentions. Your reputation will be set as having a dog you cannot control.

I adore the boys and they are my favorite to work. You are both at the stage of training waaay beyond KPT. Rewards should be rewards at this stage and not lures or bribes which can always be over-ridden if the dog does not also have a work ethic.

So, the answer? Attitude! Your attitude. If I can get someone to change their attitude that can make such a difference in the dog that very little else is usually necessary. Never ever feel helpless or confused. Dogs are so perceptive they read that in a heartbeat. Don't just know what you want from the dog, know what you require. Be absolutely clear about what you are rewarding and what you are correcting. Never ever just stand there with an "oh dear" look. Be active in all things.

Wow, well, that is my "attitude" lecture for the owners of young males.

[Jaegergirl]

judi, thank you for offering your opinion. just a couple comments...

If you have been accustomed to admiring and stroking (whether physically or mentally or both) your beautiful boy because he is so darn sweet, and sooooo handsome and he is breathing in and out - stop it!

lthis has not been a problem in our house. he has never been treated like a "cute little teddy bear prince." i have tried my best to treat him as the dog he is and established the pack order (him on the bottom) from the beginning. he has never been put on a pedistal.

but when he does you should dish out some real unpleasant consequences.

could you elaborate on this a little more please? i am using a 23" toggle choke collar that sits high on his neck and when he lunges towards another dog (and it's only certain dogs in class and it's not all the time), i give him a real swift correction and a booming "no" (in the tone you describe). what else would you suggest?

Quit excusing him because "he only wants to play" or that he is not aggressive. The owners and other dogs are entitled to be there without their dog being molested by yours. (if you think of it that way, it might help you clarify the picture).

yes, i agree. i certainly don't laugh off the lunges and blow them off. i try to correct them as aggressively (as i mentioned above) as possible. i don't try to excuse his behavior in class. this is no laughing matter and quite frankly, i'm tired of it. others in my class know that i don't try to make excuses for him.

A dog that is doing this has not earned off lead privileges.

for us, the only time maverick is off lead is during the recall and he doesn't have a problem during that exercise. well, he's off lead during the SFE too but we don't have a problem during that exercise either.

if i put my guard down for a second, there are only certain dogs he will go after. really, the only one he goes after is an altered female weimeriner. he really doesn't bother any of the males or any of the other females, unless they make the first move.

how much of his "attitude" would be alleviated if he was neutered? my trainer really couldn't say whether or not it would help. i realize neutering is not the end all be all of behavior modification but if it would help, then it might be something to consider.

at one point my trainer suggested a halti to possibly have better control over his head/where he's looking. any thoughts about that?

i hope the o.p. doesn't mind i kind of butted in here. lack of attention is something we've been struggling with since we resumed training in january and it would be great to get some good advice on how to change it.

[Judi W]

All I can say is that he is blowing you off. I've always worked intact males so I have no idea whether neutering makes a difference. I've not noticed that the neutered dogs in my classes are any less likely to diss their handlers than the intact ones. Personally, I have not seen much progress with the head halters but they do control the head if that is your main goal.

And truthfully, at this age, you just can't let your guard down. (sorry). You correct for him looking, letting alone the forward stance, forward ears. Correct. No staring. and give him something to do. Everytime he turns to stare, correct and give him some fast sits and moves.

[bettyboo]

I have to agree that i have never put him on a pedestal, he is at the bottom of the pecking order, he knows to wait and go through doors after me , he won't go to his dinner dish until told,he can do cracking heel and manwork when he is running full pelt i can drop him with a voice command, he can do the best of everything i can put him in a down stay and walk away and dogs can be led past him he will not break,but then we can be doing heelwork or a recall and he gets to see another dog and he attention is on the other dog,
i have tried turning quickly in the oposite direction and setting off at a trot, he will come into heeel position and then when we stop he will sit all without command and treat, but his head will whip around to look at the other dog,i will check him and he looks at me for a split second and then back to see what the other dogs are doing, when he does this should i just set off again at a walk and check him doing fast and tight turns so he has no idea what is happening with him.?
Carol

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by Judi W

And truthfully, at this age, you just can't let your guard down. (sorry). You correct for him looking, letting alone the forward stance, forward ears. Correct. No staring. and give him something to do. Everytime he turns to stare, correct and give him some fast sits and moves.

This is what we do with Keil and it really has seemed to make a difference.

[Jaegergirl]

Originally Posted by Judi W

All I can say is that he is blowing you off. I've always worked intact males so I have no idea whether neutering makes a difference. I've not noticed that the neutered dogs in my classes are any less likely to diss their handlers than the intact ones. Personally, I have not seen much progress with the head halters but they do control the head if that is your main goal.

And truthfully, at this age, you just can't let your guard down. (sorry). You correct for him looking, letting alone the forward stance, forward ears. Correct. No staring. and give him something to do. Everytime he turns to stare, correct and give him some fast sits and moves.

yup, "blowing off" describes what maverick is doing to a "t." i guess i'll just keep at the leash corrections (which don't even phase him ) and keep my guard up at all times (which i already knew i had to do). i know that he takes advantage at any chance he gets so i'll just keep up what i've been doing. i was hoping there would be more that i could do but i guess that's not the case. one of these days it will sink into that thick skull of his.

[bettyboo]

An update on progress, since last week the training has been more intense he has been made to obey every command i give no quibbles, and yesterday we went to club for the first time in a week, took him out of the car and he went straight into stalk mode, ears forward and standing tall,so i about turned and called him did some quick sits, stays, come , made him walk backwards when he was in front of me, made him do twirls and generally anything to bring focus back on me,let him off the leader to work and he went towards another dog called him and he looked around and came straight back to me i heeled him and set off in the oposite direction,his attention was there, i was so pleased with him, tonight will be our big test there is an 11 month old big male gsd comes to class that has an attitude,the owner is learning to controll him, my male rottie does not like this gsd,as it has squared up to my rottie twice, so tonight our instructor that takes us has told me if merlin my rottie looks as though he is squaring up to the gsd to do what i have been doing, take off to the other side of the class make him sit come anything to get his attention. so will let you know what is happening and thanks for all the advice and support you have given me.
Carol

[Judi W]

There is no magic trick, it just takes persistence, vigilance, and meaning it. The dog senses when you really mean what you say. Doesn't mean their pea brains don't hope you will be looking elsewhere now and then, but over time the ideas will be extinguished. Means you can't enjoy the scenery but must be attentive to your dog's look, stance and focus but it does end up being worth the effort. If you do this, you'll be able to relax pretty much about the time they turn 3 or so.

[Jaegergirl]

Originally Posted by bettyboo

An update on progress, since last week the training has been more intense he has been made to obey every command i give no quibbles, and yesterday we went to club for the first time in a week, took him out of the car and he went straight into stalk mode, ears forward and standing tall,so i about turned and called him did some quick sits, stays, come , made him walk backwards when he was in front of me, made him do twirls and generally anything to bring focus back on me,let him off the leader to work and he went towards another dog called him and he looked around and came straight back to me i heeled him and set off in the oposite direction,his attention was there, i was so pleased with him, tonight will be our big test there is an 11 month old big male gsd comes to class that has an attitude,the owner is learning to controll him, my male rottie does not like this gsd,as it has squared up to my rottie twice, so tonight our instructor that takes us has told me if merlin my rottie looks as though he is squaring up to the gsd to do what i have been doing, take off to the other side of the class make him sit come anything to get his attention. so will let you know what is happening and thanks for all the advice and support you have given me.
Carol

we are on break for 2 weeks so i'll have to try the advice when class starts back up. glad to hear things worked for you ... your story has inspired me that there is indeed hope for these guys!

[bettyboo]

Well the big male gsd was there when we walked into class last night, and merlin pulled himself up and the ears started to go forward, i walked quickly across the room and called him to heel, did turns and sits, and he focused quick, we then turned back towards the gsd and walked towards him and quickly about turned before he even broke his attention from me, we joined the class and a couple of times in the class i could see him starting to eyeball this gsd, which the other owner lets his eyeball merlin and does nothing about it,as soon as i saw this i checked him and made him do something while waiting his turn the class is an hour long and there where over 30 dogs there so while waiting his turn instead of just letting him get his own way we went into a corner of the room and worked, sits,stays,down, and just some other things like give a paw, crawl across the floor to me,so his attention was me and me only, and i must say i started to relax and enjoy the class have not enjoyed the class so much in about 6 months as it has always been a battle, i now know what i am doing so i will keep on going, i have my first obiedence show this weekend, i don't expect anything or a placing, but i am looking forward to going, and that in itself is a bonus, will keep everyone informed of our progress, and will definatly be asking more questions when things crop up.
thanks once again.
Carol

[Luvs]

I am glad to hear that things are going better for you. Good luck at the show this weekend!