Why and When would you....

[pbach]

What is the purpose for teaching your dog to go to the down position from walking? I am having the hardest time with Nikki on this one. If we're out walking she will heal very nicely, but as soon as I say down - on go the breaks. (BTW we're currently in OBII and we had such a busy class Monday that I either didn't hear the trainer say why or she just didn't mention why we're supposed to train our dogs this one.)

Any ideas? Oh and I'd rather not treat her while working on this – just praise. As we're working on those few extra pounds gained during the winter months. :D


Patty

[DNeff]

The down from the walking pace will eventually turn in to a moving down (from a run) Which you can then use to stop your dog from running in to traffic, etc... Its a safety control command. And a handy one at that.

I would recommend cutting back on dinner a bit and using some cookies for this. It can be a tough command for dogs to master and you want a rock solid drop in motion with tons and tons of reinforcement history so if you ever need the command to prevent an accident, you have a much better shot at getting it right!

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Judi W]

Well, the biggest reason is so that the dog learns what the command means! It does not mean, stop, sit and think about it. I consider the down your most important command, more so than even the come. Down stops all motion which means if your dog is in a dangerous position it freezes until you can go and recover it. It means stopping the chase of a cat or rabbit or stopping the beginning of jumping on gramma.

Down means hit the dirt right now without hesitation. Also for any who are intending on competing, the dog must do a down from a recall which should be at a brisk pace (at least a trot).

[BostonRott]

I do not feel that my dogs truly understand a command (position) until they can do it from any position. For example, stand to down to sit to down to stand and so on. Frol used to love this game, and it always impressed people.

I also make sure they'll do the command no matter what I'm doing. Many people think they're dogs know a command until you have them do something like talk through a papertowel tube, or lie on the ground (you, the handler) and give various commands.

Besides solidifying the dog's knowledge of the position, it gives you a little bit of mental exercise for the dog on rainy/nasty days.

[pbach]

Dawn and Judy -

Thank you so much for the fast replies. It definitely makes sense as to why. While Nikki is great with down - it's just that forward motion and then going to a down that has us stumped.

Any training tips. The one the trainer gave (might be the only one) was from heal, say down and follow through with pulling the lead down and slightly pressing on the shoulders.

Patty

[DNeff]

I start to teach the drop using a food lure between their front legs, close to their chest all the way to the ground. I have my dog heeling, say the word down, and with a cookie in my left hand lure them in to a down.

I then progress to fading the lure (not putting your hand all the way down), and after the lure is faded, I begin to keep moving after the dog has dropped. When you start moving past your dog, you will start off by just taking one step past where they have downed. But gradually you will work on being able to keep moving several yards before turning to face your dog. When working this part of the moving down, I throw a cookie back to them (aim between their front feet so they can stay in down position when they get the cookie.

My problem with using a leash or pressure on the shoulders to teach the down is the dog's natural tendency is to stand up, not go down. Dog's have opposition reflex, and this tends to work against what you are aiming for.

Do you train with WSDTC?

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[pbach]

Originally Posted by DNeff

...My problem with using a leash or pressure on the shoulders to teach the down is the dog's natural tendency is to stand up, not go down. Dog's have opposition reflex, and this tends to work against what you are aiming for.

Do you train with WSDTC?

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

This seems to be mine and Nikki's problem and yes we're training with WSDTC.

I'll give your training tip a try - Nikki is very treat orientated - we've already cut her food by 1/4 cup at night (she needs to lose about 5 pounds maybe 10). We just had a visit at the vet’s office and he said she was fine - but the WSDTC trainer said she probably needed to lose a little weight. She weighs just at 100 pounds.

Our training instructor also has rottweilers. Which I consider a real plus.

Thanks again for all your information.

Patty

[DNeff]

Originally Posted by pbach

Our training instructor also has rottweilers. Which I consider a real plus.

Is Richard your instructor?

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[pbach]

Originally Posted by DNeff

Is Richard your instructor?

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

Nope it's Robin Jennings - But we've seen Richard there with his girl working. They even did a demonstration on the heal for our class. I bet you've seen him in the agility ring... :)

[DNeff]

Yes, I see Richard at both agility and obedience trials all the time. I compete in NC quite frequently.

I would recommend adding a 1/2 cup of canned pumpkin (no sugar or spice, just pumpkin) to her food to fill her up without adding extra calories. This will go a long way in helping her "cope" with the lesser amount of food. Especially if she loves her food.

Good luck!

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Mattweiser]

Originally Posted by DNeff

I would recommend adding a 1/2 cup of canned pumpkin (no sugar or spice, just pumpkin) to her food to fill her up without adding extra calories. This will go a long way in helping her "cope" with the lesser amount of food.

umm.. doesn't this go against the point of making the dog more hungry?

[DNeff]

Originally Posted by Mattweiser

umm.. doesn't this go against the point of making the dog more hungry?

The dog doesn't have a food motivation problem, according to pbach she is very food motivated. She has a size problem and needs to diet.

Having a food motivated dog, I can guarantee you that Nikki will be just as motivated for her treats during training, even with the 1/2 cup of pumpkin being added.

I see no need to cut a dog's food back to build drive for food, if the dog is already food motivated. You are likely to get too much fixation and you can actually undermine your training by taking that route.

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX EGC OAC OJC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld