Prong to Flat Collar

[Dee]

Hi,

Since our first obedience class I've always used a prong on Koda and have loved it. Using it makes me feel secure that should anything happen (squirrel running across street, etc) I'll have control over him. He walks beautifully on a loose leash and only recently after a long cold winter and not many dogs being out in their yards, he's pulling because he's so excited about seeing the other dogs. But, he's gotten much better in the last 2 weeks as we're trying to work on focus and I've been using food.

I've signed up for an intermediate ob class that starts next week and after reading just a small part of Culture Clash decided to go with a more positive class that uses food as a motivator. So here's my concern.....All dogs are to wear a flat buckle collar. Not that I have anything against these collars, I'm just not confident that should the unexpected happen I would have full control of Koda. Am I being paranoid? I have walked him once recently with his flat collar to help a neighbor catch her dog and he did beautifully, but with the excitement of a new class and new dogs I'm not sure how he'll do.

I wasn't able to talk to the instructor but talked to her helper about this and she said she doesn't know about prongs, but know the instructor hates choke's. I'm willing to try her way but am just hoping that she'll go on a case by case basis as far as the prong goes. I would love to hear anyone's thoughts and experiences with this. Thanks very much!

Dee

[Patty1231]

My instructor doesn't like the use of prongs in class - I guess she feels if you're taught to handle the dog correctly you don't need one. I use a chain collar in class. However, while I'm out walking Rocco (he's almost 21 months) I use the prong for more control - just in case. He rarely needs a correction anymore but his neck is so thick and muscular he barely feels the prong. When I walk Perle (4 years old) I just use a thin chain collar because she's very easy to control (not an immature doofus like Rocco :p ).

[spidey]

Take it with you to class, get there early, and discuss it with the trainer. A prong is a training collar, so the goal should be to wean off it eventually anyway (it's fine to keep using it for safety on walks and that sort of thing, but in a training situation, it should be seen as a temporary measure, IMO). Enjoy your class, let us know how it goes!

[Dee]

Thanks Spidey and Patty!

[Judi W]

I cringe when I see someone with a large and strong dog in a busy place on a flat collar. Regardless of the dog's temperament or amount of training, they do not offer control should it become necessary. The "flat collar only" and no corrections ever crowd sounds very kind and certainly looks good in theory and on paper, but it doesn't look good to see a person being towed behind a strong dog or struggling to contain it. I had a lady bring a Mastiff into my ring last week and it was wearing a martingale. I'm sure she thought it was a very kind collar as they don't tighten up beyond a certain point. Well, when the Mastiff decided to go get a poor little min pin that was waiting quietly in line and I had to step in front of it to stop it because it was towing the owner across the ring, and she was instructed to leave............... Now this might be the sweetest Mastiff in the world - in familiar circumstances however - the owner could not control the dog sufficiently to be in public and certainly not in the ring! Regardless of the breed, if the dog is able to pull the owner around on the collar that is being used, it should be exchanged for a more efficient one.

[Dee]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I cringe when I see someone with a large and strong dog in a busy place on a flat collar. Regardless of the dog's temperament or amount of training, they do not offer control should it become necessary. The "flat collar only" and no corrections ever crowd sounds very kind and certainly looks good in theory and on paper, but it doesn't look good to see a person being towed behind a strong dog or struggling to contain it.

Thanks Judi, I couldn't agree more. I want to know I have the control, just in case I need it. Since I just registered with this class yesterday, I'm going to call and see if I can talk to the trainer herself, even before I go there. Although I asked a lot of questions, I failed to ask if this was a purley positive, no corrections class. If so, then I'll back out now and look for another. I do believe consequences are necessary in training when a dog that totally understands what your telling it to do refuses. How would you go about a collar correction in class with a flat collar? I've seen a huge burst of interest from Koda since we've started using treats for focus.....Guess he's food driven and I have no problem using treats in training.....I'll get on the phone and ask some more questions. Sometimes I think when people don't have large, powerful dogs such as Rotties they just don't understand their strength. I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks for your thoughts Judi!Dee


Regardless of the breed, if the dog is able to pull the owner around on the collar that is being used, it should be exchanged for a more efficient one.

[Luvs]

When we started taking classes with a new trainer last fall, she had us switch from a prong to a flat buckle collar during our classes with her. It took a little getting used to, but before long both Akasha and Keil were working very well during class with just their flat buckle collar. When we are in a controlled environment, such as our obedience or agility classes, I feel very comfortable working them with just their flat buckle collar. When we are out in public I prefer to use their prongs. I feel the prong gives me a little extra control if needed. ;)

[Dee]

Originally Posted by Luvs

When we started taking classes with a new trainer last fall, she had us switch from a prong to a flat buckle collar during our classes with her. It took a little getting used to, but before long both Akasha and Keil were working very well during class with just their flat buckle collar. When we are in a controlled environment, such as our obedience or agility classes, I feel very comfortable working them with just their flat buckle collar. When we are out in public I prefer to use their prongs. I feel the prong gives me a little extra control if needed. ;)

Hi,

I talked to the trainer today and decided to go with her class. She totally understood my concern regarding the prong and said we could use one during her class as long as I didn't use it to correct Koda. She also said after about the 2nd or 3rd class she would like for me to try both collars with sepearate leads, so I'd have the control if I needed it but so we could also learn and gain confidence using a flat collar. So, we'll see how it goes, but I'm definately willing to try her way. So.....it will be a small class - only 3 people signed up and it will be an outside class. I'm really hoping this will work out well as they also offer agility, tracking and show handling classes.

Thanks again for all the input!

Dee

[Judi W]

Well, I am all for gaining confidence as long as it is not false confidence. I still avoid close quarters with large dogs who are on flat collars. Not because I don't think it is nice to have all that confidence, but experience has shown me that they cannot correct or restrain their dog on a flat collar and I don't want mine jumped. As Luvs said, fine in your familiar territory and around familiar dogs, but not always fine in new places. I just hope this instructor does not tell all her students that after finishing her class they can go anywhere on their flat and maintain control. I will say again also that there is nothing wrong with a normal slip training collar. It can be snugged if needed.

[Dee]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I just hope this instructor does not tell all her students that after finishing her class they can go anywhere on their flat and maintain control. I will say again also that there is nothing wrong with a normal slip training collar. It can be snugged if needed.

Judi, I agree. And no matter what she tells me, I'll always have a prong on Koda when we're out and about. I would think it would be very disconcerting for most people to watch a large dog pulling it's handler around and there's no way in h*** I'd let Koda get away with that, not even for a minute. And, as I've told the trainer, I take very seriously the responsibility that comes with having my dogs, keeping them safe and making sure they are under my control.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Dee

Hi,

She totally understood my concern regarding the prong and said we could use one during her class as long as I didn't use it to correct Koda.

what does she expect you to do with it it is a correction collar
She also said after about the 2nd or 3rd class she would like for me to try both collars with sepearate leads, so I'd have the control if I needed it but so we could also learn and gain confidence using a flat collar.

an experianced handler has a rough time handling 2 leads if she is insistant that you switch to a buckle collar in my opinion you should hook the lead to both collars this lessens the correction from the pinch and after a bit the dog will associate either collar with the pinch correction....so start out with lead attached to both then after a few classes wear both but attach the lead to the flat collar and after a while then ttry the flat alone
So, we'll see how it goes, but I'm definately willing to try her way. So.....it will be a small class - only 3 people signed up and it will be an outside class. I'm really hoping this will work out well as they also offer agility, tracking and show handling classes.

Thanks again for all the input!

Dee

[Dee]

Hi Larry,

The trainer is allowing me to use the prong on Koda for my own piece of mind. Koda walks nicely on a loose leash but I'd like to know I have the control should the unexpected happen. I've also thought about how I'm going to handle 2 leashes/collars on the same dog at one time, expecially since I'm so uncordinated!!!!! LOL!! Thanks for the tip about having both collars on one leash. The more I think about this though, the more what she's saying makes sense to me. From my understanding, you shouldn't use a prong with a long lead, which is what we'll be doing in class (we're to bring a 50' lead) and since we're hoping to do an agility class after the intermediate ob., Koda would have to be wearing a flat collar for that class also. I felt a lot better about the whole situation after talking to the trainer yesterday. She shows and breeds Rhodesian Ridgebacks and said she uses a prong on one of her dogs, not as a training tool but as a "just in case" anytime she's out and about. I was really pleased that she took the time to listen to and understand my concerns. So, I'll let you all know how it goes next week! We're so excited about starting another class!! Thanks for your thoughts!