Leash Manners

[HerculesMomma]

Can someone recommend and training books or videos that deals with training a dog to walk nice on a leash? We just introduced this in our OB class last week at the end of class and it was not going well. The puppies would get up behind Hercules while we were practicing in a circle (the place is really, really small) and I spent more time making sure he didn't get ticked off at one of them and eat them ;) So I put him in the car and watched at the end of class on how it should be done, but OB class is almost over and I don't think it'll leave enough time to make a dent with him. I know we have to practice on our own, but I feel ill equipped from the short lesson in class on what I'm supposed to teach him and quite frankly, I'm fed up with this behavior from him.

This morning on our walk I was skidding for about 6 houses before he settled down. Of course I thought I could take him for a walk on his regular collar - no prong or halti and he was just crazy this morning. I would make him stop and make him sit when he started pulling, but then when we started to go again he would start to try and run Not 5 minutes into our walk I was sweating like a fool trying to control him. After a few minutes he settles down and he's manageable, but this is ridiculous! I know this is basic stuff, so there's got to be training materials out there I would assume? I need help on this one!

[jesandsamson]

I don't know about any books or videos but my rottweiler puppy was on a leash maybe 3 times when he was 2 months old and we had to go to D.C. for a redskins football game. He was only on it long enough to do his business and then he went back into the hotel room. We went for a walk the other day at the state park and I put him on his leash and it was like he'd been walking on one every day. He had a big gap in leash training, 2 months but he also knows the easy command for when i give him treats and stuff so I use it when he's on his leash and is excited and pulling. I tell him maybe 2 times to be easy and that's all it takes. I'm trying to get him to walk calmly on a leash because he'll be between 130-150 pounds when he's full grown. I think it would look pretty funny if someone saw me trying to walk him. I'm what you'd call "petite". Anyway, just work with your dog and try the easy command. i don't know if you already use it for food but it might work.

[spidey]

First, have patience! He's a baby in terms of training and you haven't taught him this skill yet, leash manners are a trained skill like any other, it takes time and fair, consistent work. STOP being frustrated and irritated, take a deep breath, and resolve to view this as the TRAINING issue that it is. Since it doesn't sound like you did any training with this (a small part of one training class does not count), what made you think that you could walk him on his regular collar? It takes time to train each new behaviour and get it reliable.

Now, he cannot pull unless you give him something to pull against, and he is pulling for two simple reasons: he wants to get somewhere faster than you're walking, and pulling has got him somewhere faster in the past. In other words, by allowing him to pull you in the past, which rewards him for pulling (he gets what he wants by pulling) you have TRAINED him to pull. The solution is simple, make it such that pulling not only doesn't get him what he wants, it sometimes ends up in him getting further AWAY from what he wants. He pulls, you stop walking and stand there until he stops pulling, the SECOND he stops pulling, even for ONE second, you praise and move on, if he keeps pulling even if you've been stopped for a while, you turn and walk backwards (don't drag him, encourage him and then go). If you do this 100% consistently, remembering that the way you train him that pulling doesn't get him where he wants to go is by MAKING that true, and you praise him like mad for walking on a loose leash (even if only for a few steps), polite leash manners will come. You must commit yourself to being prepared to get next to nowhere on your walks the first few times (so make sure he's pottied before you go, and ideally get him tired out a bit with some fetch and running around), and you must be fair, praise for every tiny bit of good behaviour, do not get angry or frustrated, remember that he does not know what you want from him. This method absolutely does work if it's applied consistently. He pulls, you stop, he stops pulling, you go - walking nicely gets him what he wants, pulling does not. Good luck. Go ahead and use a prong collar for safety if need be.

[SABELLESMOM]

You need to make the walk with you...the reward! First couple of sessions, you may not get off your own sidewalk. Clickers CAN be incorporated if you like them:

1. Start with the dog on your left.
2. Hold the leash extreemly short in your left hand, with the longer end (and clicker) in your right. The idea is, this "head up" position is boring. When you move you HAVE his attention
3. Give the "heel" command and start out.
4. Stop the second he begins to pull or be otherwise distracted.
5. Click and/or praise when the dog walks sedately without pulling, even if he only does it for 2 seconds.
6. Stop when he doesn't.
REPEAT

As step 5 gets better, continue to click/praise at intervals, so the dog knows he's doing what you want.

Make first sessions short and sweet. End on a good note with lots of praise. Go out again, and again, and again. They get the picture mighty quick. And they DO enjoy being with you.

Mine caught on in about 2-3 lessons...but TRUST ME! They need refreshers...because they test to see if you really mean it. For this type of leash walking...sniffing bushes and crap along the sidewalk is NOT allowed. It's counter productive. Save that for a hike with a long lead, instead.

[spidey]

Personally, I think heel is an entirely separate exercise which should be taught after loose-leash walking is fully understood, and then it should only be used for a few steps here and there. Heeling is very hard work for a dog, and a sure-fire way to make a dog hate it even more is to start off with it, and do too much of it. I agree about keeping the lead quite short, but do not expect walking beside you in heel position, just expect no pulling. I allow sniffing and everything else on walks, I just don't allow pulling or lagging. (Also, if you're actually clicker training (as opposed to just using a clicker), do not add the cue until you have the behaviour being performed reliably)

[HerculesMomma]

Okay, I can use some of that info!! Of course, my neighbors will be laughing at me while we walk up and down the driveway :D Then again, they're probably already laughing at me when they see Hercules taking ME for a walk! I'll give it some good attention this weekend and start practicing though. I did notice someone else posted the stop method for teaching leash manners in the last week, so I've been trying it on walks, but I think it's too much at once and should start in the driveway. When you stop should you say anything to him (enough?) or do they simply not know what they are doing so it won't matter?

I'm not sure what kind of training he had prior to me adopting him, but he's 2 1/2 and I was told he "walked well on a leash" when I adopted him. He does, after he's gone past a half dozen houses and after he has gone the bathroom on every bush, tree, lamp post etc. I've already started practicing NOT allowing him to do these things (no, leave it). The only other problem I have with praising him is I've gotten into the habit of using the same praise phrase "Good boy". Now, when he's walking nice on a leash and I say "Good boy" the little stinker speeds up! I also have been trying to teach him to stop and stay at the street corners until I say okay. When I say okay, he starts to run. He's something else! :(

You're right, I need to stop getting frustrated, but today was one of his worst days yet. So from now on I just won't leave on a walk without the prong. I just needed a little extra something to go on for training purposes to try and fix this so I'll start practicing today.

[spidey]

Nope, don't say anything when you stop, keep quiet. The message will be extremely clear if you're consistent with it, talking will only muddy the water. If you click, as soon as he stops pulling, click and move out. If you don't click, as soon as he stops pulling, say a happy word of praise ("Yes", "good boy", whatever, remember to vary your tone of voice and the words you use so that the praise is sincere and not just another command) and move out. I might also start using a specific term that means "casual walk, but don't you pull", I use "let's go" (which means "do what you like, but no pulling me", which is different from the formal "heel" command) - every time you move forward, use this term, so: he pulls, you stop, and you stand there like a tree until he stops pulling, the SECOND he stops pulling, you say "good boy! Let's go!" and move on briskly. I guarantee you that the first few times, he'll just pull right away (one reason to keep the lead relatively short as sabellesmom suggested, so he can't build up a head of steam), you just stop again. Remember, you're not angry, you're not correcting him (you cannot fairly correct him, since you have not trained the behaviour yet), you're merely explaining to him that pulling doesn't work anymore. The fact that pulling has worked in the past means you have to overcome that obstacle first. Be VERY patient, be observant, be consistent, be prepared to go over the same patch of driveway 100 times if need be. Putting the work in now will benefit both of you for years to come, so don't be in a hurry. The point is to make it abundantly clear to him that pulling does not get him what he wants, and NOT pulling DOES get him what he wants - the way to do this is to make it true, if he doesn't pull, he gets to go forward, if he pulls, he does not. But as I said, be fair: make sure that he's not in "gotta go" potty mode, and try to at least take the edge off his energy first. And by all means use a prong for safety, there's no reason you can't use this method with any collar. If he pulls, you become a tree, the second he stops, you're walking! Good luck! It WILL work if you are consistent and determined, and if you're getting frustrated, stop until you settle down.

[SABELLESMOM]

My fault, Spidey. I DID use the word "heel", when perhaps I should have clarified walk. I didn't intend her to teach the word walk first then change to heel. I could have been more clear.

According to what I've been told about working with clickers, and I'm far from expert, is you click as soon as you see the desired behavior...even in it's briefest form. You make a correction when the desired behavior disappears. True, eventually you will be clicking for "reliable" behavior.

[spidey]

You do click when you see the desired behaviour (it's like "taking a picture" of what you want), but you don't add the cue (command) until you have the behaviour occurring reliably (in true clicker training). I wasn't taking issue with what you said about the click, you were right about that, I was taking issue with adding the cue right from the get-go ("Give the "heel" command and start out"), which you do not do in clicker training, for various reasons, the most obvious of which is that if you add the cue before you have the behaviour occurring reliably, you're naming the half-formed behaviour, rather than the final behaviour (if you add the "sit" cue when the dog's still sitting crooked, or slowly, you have taught the dog that "sit" means "sit however you like, whenever you like", whereas if you only add the cue when you have a fast, straight sit, then you have taught the dog that "sit" means "sit straight and right away". Many clicker trainers use a "work in progress" name and a "final" name, so that the final cue they want to use only applies to the final behaviour, but they still have a cue to use while working on the behaviour). :)

And in clicker training, you don't make a correction when the behaviour disappears (if you have trained and proofed it properly, it doesn't disappear). Some clicker trainers use negative punishment (taking away something the dog wants), but true clicker training does not involve corrections.

[SABELLESMOM]

I'll defer to your expertise, Amanda. I don't do obedience in competition. So I probably have a tendency to modify a few things because I show instead.

I guess I took a more relaxed attitude as Herc's mom was just starting. I didn't think things needed to be so strict so soon.

[spidey]

I wasn't intending to sound strict, I was just explaining how to use the clicker correctly (if you're going to use a training method, it's worth using it properly right from the beginning). I'm no expert, I've just done a lot of research, Rakki's my first clicker dog. :)