Obedience w/o papers

[MrsBoats]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about obedience without AKC papers. Sam is a rescue and I don't have papers on him. I am going to start training with him and eventually would like to get "hardcore" with competition and trials. I would love to get him involved with agility someday too. I think he could pull it off eventhough we are starting at ground zero right now. I like to think BIG!

I know to participate in AKC trials....you need papers....are there exceptions to the rule? How about agility? Will his lack of papers keep us from maybe achieving this?

Thanks in advance!!

[laurlitt]

MrsBoats, You are in LUCK! The AKC allows dogs without registration papers to apply for an ILP number. These number is for any dog that is purebred. To prove it's purebred pictures of the dog must be provided from different angles. The dog also must be neutered. With these ILP registration you can compete in any AKC obedience trial. I think the same goes for agility. Keep in mind that there are different agility organizations that may have different rules. There are also organizations out there that allow mix-breeds to compete in obedience. Check out the akc page www.akc.org to get more information on the ILP registration. I know many people who have this type of registration and are involved in competition.

Good Luck!

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Laurie & Blaise
(Los Angeles)

[CajunsMom]

Don't overlook UKC either. They also have ILP cards and allow mixed breeds to compete in obedience and agility and attain titles. I also find UKC trials to be "ahem" a little bit more relaxed and fun than AKC. UKC also has a great web site. Good luck and have fun. I do agility with Cajun. He as his AG-II and we are going for championship points now.

Okay, that brings up a question from me. How can the AKC tell a purebred dog from looks alone? I have rarely seen two Rotts that look the same as far as ears, markings, and such. We have AKC papers for Shea, but because she has a longer undercoat we often have people ask us what she's mixed with. When I tell people that her longer than usual/standard hair is attributed to a genetic defect they often tell me they like it better than the short coats because she looks more cuddly . FYI.. only one of her 3 siblings had the longer undercoat, does 2 longer-haired pups out of 4 pet-quality Rotties considered a 'bad' litter? I have begun seeing pictures of Rotts in calenders and posters that have even longer hair than my girl and I have also heard that many breeders are beginning to breed longer haired Rotts because the appearance is desirable to many would-be owners, with the understanding they are pet-quality only. I don't necessarily agree with messing with the genetic make-up of the Rottweiler however. Also, what does a breeder have to do to obtain papers for a litter of puppies, what stops a breeder from lying when in fact the puppies were an accidentle mixture? Thanks for your help!

[This message has been edited by Shea & Kona's Mom (edited January 31, 2001).]

[AngelBunny]

Shea & Kona's Mom:

If a dog looks close enough to the breed the owner claims, the AKC will grant ILP. No doubt, the AKC likes receiving the application fee, and perhaps on a more altruistic note, feels that if the person is motivated to apply for an ILP for a neutered or spayed dog, the dog will likely be shown, so why make life difficult?

Read the AKC standard on coat (http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/rotty.cfm).

The "many breeders are beginning to breed longer haired Rotts because the appearance is desirable to many would-be owners, with the understanding they are pet-quality only" would be of the BYB variety. What breeder with top-flight dogs would waste a pregnancy on knowingly breeding dogs with DQs??

By "accidentle mixture," do you mean the bitch is a Rottie and the stud is the neighbor's dog who climbed the fence?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AngelBunny:

What breeder with top-flight dogs would waste a pregnancy on knowingly breeding dogs with DQs??

By "accidentle mixture," do you mean the bitch is a Rottie and the stud is the neighbor's dog who climbed the fence?</font>

I was speaking in hypothetical, but yes that's what I meant. There really is nothing to prevent a breeder from lying about the litter parentage. Unless the pups look like a french poodle, then you would know they are lying . I met both parents of Shea and her brothers and sisters, I know she is a purebred. My point and question was that a breeder is pretty much on their honor with AKC that the dogs are what they say they are. If it looks like a Rott, sounds like a Rott, and is stubborn like a Rott... it's a Rott seems to be the concensus of the AKC. However, a friend of mine has a black lab/Rott mix and it is almost impossible to tell that he's not all Rott'n. And as far as buying a Rott with DQs who cares? I have absolutely no interest in showing and I wouldn't hesitate to get another puppy that I knew was not show-quality. The fact that Shea's ONLY disqualifying trait is her long hair matter not a whit. Not all Rotts are 'top-flight' and it may not promote the best of the Rott genes, but it's a fact of life that many breeders concentrate on litters in the $500 - $700 range that will never be shown and perhaps have slight imperfections that would never gain them the top spot in the ring. And by slight imperfection I don't mean knowingly breeding a bitch with bad hips, blindness, agression, or any dangerous condition that could be passed on to the pups. They are meant to be normal pets that are not trouped all over the country to be dragged around an arena ring. I would hate to think that suddenly pet-quality Rotts would be eradicated and only the show-quality pups were allowed to be bred. Also, even two of the best show Rotts can produce a 'black sheep' occassionally.