Gentle Leader vs prong???

[HerculesMomma]

I can't say I really know much about the choke or prong collar, but if that was what would work to help train Hercules I would do it......... I used the choke once since I've had him and did notice a mild improvement over the nylon collar, but not much.

Here's a novice dog owner for you - Me! I've never owned a dog before and Hercules is my first (I know, a lot of people don't think I should have gotten a 110 pound Rott as my first dog, but I did - and I'm dedicated). He's already 2 1/2 yrs. old, but a pretty good boy, but he would always pull on his lead and was always way ahead of me on his regular collar.

The OB class we started yesterday had the trainer strongly recommend the gentle lead. I told her I would try it, but I would NEVER take Hercules out in public with it because I was worried if (and so far he hasn't) he ever got out of hand he could snap it etc. I was even debating whether I would call the instructor and cancel the class because I was rather adverse to the gentle lead thinking it wouldn't "control" him enough. I finally broke down and bought one though.

I decided to try and take him for a walk on the gentle leader before OB classes started to see how he would do. It was the first nice walk we've ever had! All the while (as I did with the regular nylon collar) telling him to heel if his pace picked up and all of the other training things I try with him on both types of collars (sit and stay before we cross the street until I tell him okay etc.).

I even was able to go to petsmart with the gentle lead and actually browse in the store without being dragged down the aisles!!!! :p What a pleasure it has been and I can focus more on verbally trying to train him instead of just struggling with him. Eventually I would like to be able to just use a regular collar, but I'm hoping this will allow me to train him in the mean time until he gets to that point. I can say it does definately allow me to control him better. We had another nice walk tonight on the gentle leader. :)

I can't bet on a prong vs. a gentle lead since I haven't used a prong before, but so far this novice would put her money on a gentle lead :D

[HerculesMomma]

I was searching the forums for another topic when I came across this old topic. Well, after talking to Carina on Thursday I decided to give the prong collar a try.

We had a verrrrrry nice walk today and Hercules didn't at all seem put out by the collar. In fact, I found it to be odd - it's almost as though he seemed to know it was on and he automagically didn't pull on our walk AT ALL from the very start. Usually, even with the gentle lead, he's got so much gusto for the first three houses I'm usually struggling to get him to slow down. We even encountered two beagles barking at us behind the fence and he again was automagically pretty well behaved (well, we did move to the street from the sidewalk, but the owner was outside so I didn't want her to think Hercules would eat her beagles :D ).

Now I'll have to try it at petsmart and see how he does. Hercules is horrible at listening in a distracted environment but I'm thinking the prong will work out pretty well. Ah, so can I ah, uhm, change my vote? Thanks Carina ;)

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Now I'll have to try it at petsmart and see how he does. Hercules is horrible at listening in a distracted environment but I'm thinking the prong will work out pretty well. Ah, so can I ah, uhm, change my vote? Thanks Carina ;)

Before you get right into taking him into PetsMart you may want to ease him into behaving better first. Possibly take him for a walk in the parking lot in front of the store once or twice. Make sure you give him lots of praise and when he's comfortable with the activity from a distance, next reduce the distance.

[Judi W]

When speaking of equipment, I think one needs to differentiate between controlling the dog, and training the dog.

When speaking of control, there are many options that increase the handler's ability to physically manage the dog and what works best for the different handlers and dogs.

If you are speaking training, then it needs an honest evaluation regarding actual progress towards the goal of not being dependent upon equipment. Although progress in training provides control, physical restraint itself does connotate training. If you are not moving past the need of special equipment, then you are not making training progress.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Usually, even with the gentle lead, he's got so much gusto for the first three houses I'm usually struggling to get him to slow down.

When you first go out the door, leave it open. As soon as he moves ahead of you, turn around and go back in. Put him in a sit, count to 10 (slowly) and go back out the door again. He'll catch on that as soon as he moves ahead of you, back in the house we go. Once he understands that part, close the door and proceed, but every time he moves ahead of you, turn back and head towards home for 20 ft or so. If you do this consistently, you may find you'll be turning around a LOT at first for the first 3 houses, but stick to it and my bet is that he will learn to stay with you instead of forging ahead. It makes walking so much more pleasurable! :)

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Now I'll have to try it at petsmart and see how he does. Hercules is horrible at listening in a distracted environment but I'm thinking the prong will work out pretty well. Ah, so can I ah, uhm, change my vote? Thanks Carina ;)

I agree with RottWiley...just because you have control with a prong, doesn't mean he is ready for too many distractions. Be careful not to overface him with situations that you may be able to control him in, but he's not mentally ready to deal with. Spend a couple weeks walking around some parking lots, walk into Petsmart, then turn around and walk back out, take a walk down a semi-busy sidewalk, etc. Give him a chance to adapt before you expect him to spend time in a busy store....as the old saying goes, "Easy does it". :)

[HerculesMomma]

I agree, a good portion of his bad behavior is probably due to lack of training. OB class is not going fast enough for me. We started with things he already knew like sit, down, stay. Of course, there's always room for improvement :D I did learn a few new things that we've been working on (watch it, leave it and on my own, drop it) but I don't think he knows heel. I tried teaching him while on our walks using the regular nylon leash, but that didn't work with him at all. The halti was better at controling him but if I went back to the nylon leash, he went back to his old ways. Though I can't say I know how to teach heel, other than to say "heel, and jerk on the leash". But I think heel is coming up in OB class real soon.

I'm sure the problem is training and I couple that with his nose. He territory marks something awful (even at petsmart) and if I get him in an open field he's dragging me with his nose to the ground. On walks through the sub, he calms down after the first 3 houses, but his whole excitement with walks is marking everything. This is when he starts to get a little uncontrollable for me and starts pulling. I think if he could control his nose, he would be better - but I'm sure thats tied to training overall right?

[Judi W]

I would suggest that you then not allow him to mark at all off his own property. (another reason for keeping him out of Petsmart for the time being). Once you get that under control, then he is only allowed to mark with specific permission from you and where you allow it. That has always been the rule with my dogs. It makes life easier as well as stops them from thinking they can expand their territory in a dominating fashion. You can teach (yes it will take time) him to be polite on the leash before worrying about heel position which is a very specific skill set.

[Karinka200]

I've used both...and prefer prong...

Karinka and "pack" + feline friend

[R&Gsmom]

I have successfully used a Gentle Leader in working with a dog that had fear aggression issues with other dogs. It worked really well by redirecting her attention away from the offending dog and back onto me. She didn't have a choice but to look at me! But then again she was not a lunger!!! If she was then it wouldn't have worked becuase of the possibility of hurting her neck.

I also have come into contact with trainers that refuse to let any sort of choke or prong collar into their classes. To these trainers I ask why are you afraid of a training tool? Personally I feel that if they are a competent trainer they will have no problem working with any type of training aid and more importantly know how to help you work off of it and onto a regular buckle collar if you choose to do so.

I say if it's not broke don't try to fix it! If the prong works and the trainer isn't totally against it then go with it! BUT be careful like Diane said of transference. If the dog believes that whatever they are focused on is causing the correction then they will become worse instead of better.

Good Luck!

[wildrose]

How soon should you start using a pronged collar. Our Josie is 4 months old. Her trainer said we could start using a prong collar now. I am hesitating because I don't feel her neck is thick or strong enough yet. We use one on our German Shephard but she's 4 years old.

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by wildrose

How soon should you start using a pronged collar. Our Josie is 4 months old. Her trainer said we could start using a prong collar now. I am hesitating because I don't feel her neck is thick or strong enough yet. We use one on our German Shephard but she's 4 years old.

I wouldn't rush into using a prong on a 4 month old pup. If you use up all your tricks now, what are you going to do down the road if a serious problem comes up? Just my opinion.

[Judi W]

You ask that as if it were a presumed fact that all dogs need the additional force of a pinch. You said she has a trainer. Is this a class instructor or is someone training her for you?

If the foundation is laid well especially starting your training at a young age it is quite likely you should never need that additional force.

[R&Gsmom]

Instead of putting her on a prong just reinforce and really work on walking on a loose leash. Prong collars are training tools to be used once the problem has been established and all other methods have been tried.

I would definately not use one on a puppy. You have many other options for shaping and training then that at this point.