what do you do with your arms during sit/stay and down stay

[Jaegergirl]

i realize that everyone has "their" way of doing things but i was just curious about something. what do you do with your arms when you're doing the sit and down stay? my first trainer taught us to fold our arms which emphasizes the point that we want the dogs to stay. so that's what i've been doing at our new training place and i realized i was the only on doing it. then last night the new trainer tells me i really shouldn't do it.. that i should keep my arms to my side.

so i was just curious what everyone does and if one way is more "accepted" than the other. thanx. :)

[Judi W]

Whenever it is a stay, whether the stand, novice or open groups, my arms are folded until I return to heel position. This is permissible and I believe gives the dog a little second clue. If it is legal and helps, use it. The only time the hands "must" be at your sides is when the dog is expected to come and sit in front. Recalls, retrieves.............

[Sansano]

I keep my arms folded also. It's a little extra help for the dog and I have never heard any judge docking for it or sying it was not allowed.

[Jaegergirl]

she mentioned something about point reduction if your arms weren't folded/undfolded at "the right time." maybe that's why she advised against it??? if you keep your arms folded until you're in the heal position (when you're returning), then as your walking away, when do you put your arms up? i was originally taught the arm movement took place as you were walking away from and back to your dog. at least i thought that's how they taught us. that's how i've been doing it all this time anyway.

[Judi W]

When you are not sure, look at the regs! It is spelled out very fully in the first section where it discusses such things as heel position, commands and/or signals, and so forth. As I stated, the only time the arms must be at the sides is when the dog is expected to sit in front. Hand position is specified regarding heeling as well, but is more flexible. Of course on a stay, if you are giving a signal, your arms would fold after the signal. Judges cannot point for things that are not in the rules and i don't know many that take cheap shots. During stays you can hold them at your sides, behind you, crossed in front, ........ you just can't be moving them around. the main thing is not to make the judge wonder what the heck you are doing. Consistency counts in that regard.

[LynnS]

I fold my arms as well and it definately reinforces the stay (as that is the position Bella is used to seeing me in vs arms by side for recall).

[Jaegergirl]

Originally Posted by LynnS

I fold my arms as well and it definately reinforces the stay (as that is the position Bella is used to seeing me in vs arms by side for recall).

makes sense to me. well, i found my rule book last night and read thru it. i'm participating in my very first match on sunday and i'm just a little nervous and want to make sure i do everthing correctly. and when my new trainer said i should keep my arms down, i thought maybe i've been doing it wrong this whole time.. i mean, she's has 20 yrs exp in the ring and i've had...well... ZERO. thanks.

[Judi W]

Well, you'd be surprised at the people who do not know their rules. This detail is in the front (before you get to the class descriptions) of the book. Also, all this little stuff gets discussed at the AKC judging seminars. If you ever have an opportunity to attend one, I highly recommend it. Had some utility competitiors who were quite surprised to learn that the crossed arms are also allowed in the moving stand! They had not read.........

Most people only read the class sections for the class they are competing in when most of the standards of performance and detail is in the front sections.

Also, remember - it is only a match! Nothing to worry about. Even in a sanctioned match, the judge is usually more than happy to give pointers. (Although match judges sometimes don't know any more than your instructor). Read your rulebook and use a highlighter.......Then - don't worry about it! They don't take your dog away from you for handler errors :D

[Miabella]

I'm an arm folder, too. :) My understanding of the rules is that if you fold your arms after the stay command, you need to keep them folded until after the judge says "exercise finished" or else it can be seen as a second command.

[Wookie'sMom]

Well, I'm not in it for competition or anything, but when I am training the stays I try to be as distracting as possible (after she understood the command and was complying of course). I jump up and down, do cartwheels, jumping jacks, sit and play with things, and just basically run around like a crazy person until I release her. I figure the more distractions she can sit through the better it is for everyday usage of the command.

[Jaegergirl]

yes, i read that front section last night after i found my rule book. i had no idea what to expect at these things.. i pictured everyone doing everything correctly and then here comes me, a total newbie, screwing everything up. :) it won't be that bad, i know. it will all be fine and FUN.

you need to keep them folded until after the judge says "exercise finished" or else it can be seen as a second command.

that's what i was wondering and i don't see anything about it in the rule book (and it's sitting on my lap right now), unless i'm just missing it.

[Miabella]

Jaegergirl, I couldn't find it in the rule book either, but that's what a trainer who has put like 10 UDs on her dogs told me, so I took her word for it. ;)

[Jaegergirl]

Originally Posted by Miabella

Jaegergirl, I couldn't find it in the rule book either, but that's what a trainer who has put like 10 UDs on her dogs told me, so I took her word for it. ;)

well, that's good enough for me then. :) thanks.

[Patty1231]

I actually do both with no real reason for doing either - but I don't switch any time during the stay. Our trainer said nothing about it and she's pretty picky about critiqueing things. Actually, the more I head towards obedience titling, the less I'm being inclined to do it. I'm not trying to rack up points with Rocco to breed him and, I must admit, it's beginning to take a little of the fun out of it and that's what it's really all about for me. My only goal is to have him consistently follow my commands, get him active and social, and have fun. That's why I'm looking into agility now.

[Judi W]

As I said earlier, you just cannot be moving your arms or hands around. The key is do not do anything the judge might construe as a signal to your dog. Certainly no singing or cartwheels! Respect for the other dogs and handlers is important. I would also urge that you consider the sit and down as a single exercise and not break your dog between the two. Dogs milling around when they have to go right on to another stay is not a happy thing and can be very difficult for the neighboring dogs. It can also trigger an altercation!

Playing by the rules shouldn't take the fun out of it anymore than it would with tennis or checkers. You should enjoy your dog, remember to breath and smile.