basic obedience again???

[Zacky]

I have already two basic obedience courses on Zack now and want to start advanced obedience but there isn't any at this time. The trainer told me after half of the first obedience course that she thought Zack was ready for pre-advanced but I didn't want rush anything.

But now they only have a basic obedience course again, but the last time I went I found that Zack got bored.

Should I still take the basic again or just wait until they start the advanced?
He is more than ready for the advanced, but I can't find any other obedience trainer that are doing advanced class without clicker training.

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by Zacky

He is more than ready for the advanced, but I can't find any other obedience trainer that are doing advanced class without clicker training.

Can you find an advanced class that does with clicker training? If you can, why not give that a try?

[Zacky]

Originally Posted by Rott-Wiley

Can you find an advanced class that does with clicker training? If you can, why not give that a try?

I tried with the clicker training but it doesn't work on Zack, and the lady that has the clicker training is scared of Rottweiler so she told me that she didn't really want us in the class. And that because he was a male, he wouldn't go good with the other dogs.
That is how is to have a Rottie I guess

[spidey]

it doesn't work on Zack,

Clicker training works on any dog, you just have to find what motivates them. Sounds to me like the trainer won't work with you, that's the problem, not the clicker training (the failure is in the trainer, not the method). Good trainers don't have problems with breeds, they have problems with individual dogs who've shown themselves to be a problem, don't let the fact that this trainer has an issue with Rotties turn you off.

[Zacky]

I don't find that it works on Zack because he is already trained in voice command since he was a puppy and I find that is better.
And yes it is the trainers fault but I don't like the clicker training, because Zack is a very stubborn Rottie. And when we tried the clicker he just ignored it. That is how it is for us, it works better with the training method that we are doing right now so why change. I'm just going to wait and talk to the obedience trainer that I had before and ask her what she thinks that we can do until they start again.

[fbkeays]

If the trainer for basic is a good one and you have a good relationship with the trainer then I think you should go back to basic. But instead of doing everything like everyone else is doing, take the next step. If everyone is doing heeling work on lead, then do yours off lead with a tab, or have the lead hanging over your shoulder. Do your stays farther back then the rest. Start doing hand signals instead of the verbal. Instead of a recall, how about a drop on recall? I am sure the trainer will be willing to let you do these things in class.

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by Zacky

I don't find that it works on Zack because he is already trained in voice command since he was a puppy and I find that is better.

I think you don't understand clicker training. I don't mean that to critisize you, you just haven't been exposed to someone that can teach the method to you. The click in no way replaces any voice command, it is used as a marker to indicate to the animal that the current behavior is desireable and something good will follow.

Anyway, given the choices that are available to you, I would suggest you repeat the basic course with the trainer that you both work well with and just set the bar higher on what you want him to be do in class.

[Zacky]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

If the trainer for basic is a good one and you have a good relationship with the trainer then I think you should go back to basic. But instead of doing everything like everyone else is doing, take the next step.

Thank you, that is a really good suggestion. I would do that and that gets Zack more training in having destractions around him again.
She is one of the best obedience trainer I have ever had, even better than the one I had when I took a course in obedience.

I just don't think that the clicker training is for Zack and I, I have read a lot about it but it isn't what I want in obedience. I train my cats with clicker because I find that is a easier way to train cats. But I train my dog in voice and hand commands, that is what I have do with all my dogs I have had.

[spidey]

I train my dog in voice and hand commands, that is what I have do with all my dogs I have had.

Not to keep on at it, but as Rott-Wiley said, if you think that clicker training means you don't use voice and hand commands, you don't understand clicker training. The finished behaviour is exactly the same as behaviours trained any other way, and you can add any cue you want to that behaviour, same as any other training method, it's the method of getting to the finished behaviour that's different. You only use the clicker until the behaviour is learned and put on cue, then you phase it out.

There's nothing wrong with training the way you have been, and I'm certainly not trying to convince you to use clicker training (just trying to ensure that anyone else reading this doesn't misunderstand clicker training), but it sounds like your "clicker trainer" didn't really know what she was doing and I'm not sure what books you read that made you think that you can't clicker train for obedience (better tell DNeff that, she's put a CDX and a host of other titles on her dog, and she clicker trains - in fact, better tell ME that too, since I'm working toward competition and I clicker train).

Anyway, it does sound like you should repeat basic, and just try to work to a higher level (or ask the trainer if s/he can give you some extra work to do). Good luck. :)

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

If the trainer for basic is a good one and you have a good relationship with the trainer then I think you should go back to basic. But instead of doing everything like everyone else is doing, take the next step. If everyone is doing heeling work on lead, then do yours off lead with a tab, or have the lead hanging over your shoulder. Do your stays farther back then the rest. Start doing hand signals instead of the verbal. Instead of a recall, how about a drop on recall? I am sure the trainer will be willing to let you do these things in class.

I agree 100% - Bucky took whatever class was available just to keep him busy - of course I really LIKED that he was the BEST in the class (because we had been there three times already :)) - but it was ALSO good Rottweiler PR - good practice for him AND the trainer DID allow/encourage "taking the next step" so it was LIKE a more advanced class for him - in the Spring if that is the only class available - we will do it again

[Zacky]

Originally Posted by spidey

Not to keep on at it, but as Rott-Wiley said, if you think that clicker training means you don't use voice and hand commands, you don't understand clicker training.

Okay, clicker training isn't for Zack and I, I'm not saying that it is a bad method it just didn't work out the way I wanted it to work out as. I just wanted to try out some different obedience method, but as I said it wasn't for us.

There is people that are rewarding their dogs different ways, and I'm using voice and hand commands since that is working great for me.

[Zacky]

So I went to the basic obedience tonight and found out that they are starting an advanced obedience next week. And I'm taking Zack through the CGN certification, so that is what I'm going to do. My obedience trainer told me that I should go to the advanced.

Thank you for your replies!!

And I train my cats with clicker, so I know what it is and how to use it.

[Judi W]

The advanced class is not going to be doing anything different - it is simply going to be requiring more precision and promptness. The bored is usually the handler, not the dog. Unless you dog is spot on every time and every place, there is no reason to demand more advanced. New things come after you are on your way to the CD or have a couple of legs. To keep yourself interested put the effort to make your heeling animated and prompt, teach a formal retrieve at home (it won't be part of a training class until Open) and polish polish. Sure, you're going to look a lot better than the rest of the dogs, give them something to shoot for. If your dog is a youngster, expect things to come and go as far as training is concerned. Good heeling is the hardest thing to teach so take advantage of the class situation and calling to work it up to the best you can.

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by Zacky

There is people that are rewarding their dogs different ways, and I'm using voice and hand commands since that is working great for me.

I hate to have to keep repeating myself here but as Amanda pointed out, I wouldn't want other people reading this to get the wrong idea. The clicker does not replace a voice command or a hand command. They both are still used in clicker training. The click marks a behavior indicating to the dog that it did the correct response to the hand signal or command that it just got. The click is given at exactly the correct time to indicate to the dog that it is correct -- timing is absolutely critical. The dog learns that the click indicates something good will follow, that is usually food or praise or a comforting pat. But again, the clicker does not replace the command or signal.

[Zacky]

Okay, I know that clicker doesn't replace the command. But I use voice as a reward, he knows when he did right by the sound of my voice that is what I mean.

You choose the training method that you are pleased with andI'm pleased with voice rewarding.

And I'll take him to both basic and advanced so I can get more training on him when other dogs are around him.

We have all our own way to handle things, and I'm quite happy the way Zack is, and as my trainer said tonight is that it is me that is bored on doing the same things over again because she knows that Zack could do more. And I feel like I'm not coming anywhere with keep going to basic.