Shock Collar

[tcrott]

Anyone train with a shock collar? Opinions?

B

[RAVENMOM]

Afraid I wouldn't consider training with a shock collar. I prefer more positive means, ie: rewards, praise and treats. Positive rewards, IMHO, help the dog to WANT to do what you ask.

Shock collars it would seem is more like aversion therapy. "Want to quit smoking? Let me shock you evey time you decide to light up."...is about what it sounds like to me. Am I misunderstanding?

Were you referring to anything specific, say an incessant barking problem? Or jumping up?

[tcrott]

I've never used one...can't even bring myself to keep an invisible fence for more than a week (we had it ripped up and took it back). I just see more and more people using the manual shock collars and I'm not sure if they're lazy, or if they're using a great tool. I don't have the heart to use one and my dogs aren't problem dogs anyway. But the people that I know that have them say it ends problems immediately and I wanted to know if anyone on the forum had used them and how they felt about them.

Thanks,
B

[spidey]

Used properly by skilled people, they can be very effective training tools. Used improperly by unskilled people, they can be physically painful and mentally harmful (just like almost any other piece of equipment, including even flat collars). I don't use one (I clicker train), but some here use them and have great success with them, and I know a couple of trainers who use them as well.

[spoteet]

I always said I would never, never, ever put an electric collar on my dog UNTIL I found myself with a behavior problem that nothing else was fixing. Then I started researching the use of an e-collar and talking to many people. I decided to attend an e-collar seminar 3 weeks ago to learn the correct way to use this tool. I took with me a dog that could not be in the same room with other large dogs without wanting to attack them. I brought home a dog that can sit side by side(touching) with the biggest and the smallest and be totally calm and focused on me. These dogs can be running around, run right by him or over him and he does nothing but look at me. We did not fry him with the collar to get this result either. My dog is so much more relaxed and calm when around other dogs now. Our training classes are once again fun for us both.

I was taught how to use the collar as a positive motivator not a punishment. I already used his prong/choke collar as a motivator. The e-collar is used to get their attention not to give them something to avoid. I train my dogs with as much positive as possible and as much negative as neccessary for each dog. Before I went to the seminar I was worried about breaking my dog's spirit, his positive attitude. I was worried for no reason. He has even more spirit and positive attitude then he did before. Now he isn't worried about beating up the biggest dog in class. Now he just enjoys the time we spend together. He is so much more focused on me and ignores the other dogs.

I will continue to use the e-collar for future training but it will not replace the positive reinforcement methods that I used before. Once a dog knows the commands, then this tool is very useful for proofing and fine tuning.

My 2 cents :D

[bcarlsen]

We put in an Invisible Fence when we adopted our Hanna. As we do not have a wooden/visible fence around our property but do have and use a grass lined 15x15 kennel. The breeder, from whom we adopted urged us to install the Invisible Fence. We did so with great results. We purchased directly from the company and they not only installed buyt also had 3 training sessions with us on the proper use and training methods. The training was always positive in nature and the dog was not allowed to receive a correction from the collar until well into the second week of training. Living on a country road with occasional vehicles zooming by, the ubiquitous snowmobiles and the neighborhood cats taunting the dogs, the Invisible Fence has saved us a lot of headache. Whether I am watching or not, "it" always works. It provides a warning tone and then within 10 seconds administers the correction. Hanna just hears me testing the collar (to be sure the batteries are working) and she heads to her safe place on the deck. My dog has a great prey drive and would love to chase cars, cats, motor cycles, snowmobiles and so on, but she can only do so in our yard. Running up and down the fence line, while respecting its boundaries, keeps her in shape (LOL!) and keeps her safe. I highly recommend it. The breeder I have worked with has also used e-collars for field trianing and has had great success. The dogs are not abused and she always has their full attention whether she has liver treats or not!

I recommend going to a seminar as mentioned above, or working with the Invisible Fence co. if installing a fence or working with a trainer that is familiar with e-collars and field training. Watch the trainer first, if you do not like they way they handle their dogs or do not like the way their dogs respond to them, find another trainer. A good trainer will make you want to teach your dogs to be like theirs-obedient, willing and content.

Warmly,
Barbara

[spidey]

A word of caution about invisible fencing - most dogs have at least one motivator which they'll put up with the shock to get to, it may seem like it's working, but I've heard far too many horror stories of dogs escaping from invisible fencing (sometimes after a very long period of use) to ever consider it a truly safe containment system. And invisible fences don't keep other animals or people who could harm your dog out of your yard. I wouldn't rely on it too heavily, it's likely that at some point something is going to matter more to your dog than the shock.

[Wookie'sMom]

An invisible fence MIGHT keep your dog in if it doesn't have a very high prey drive, but it certainly won't keep other people and animals out. It WON'T keep your dog from getting stolen or in a dog fight. It WON'T keep your dog in if the batteries are dead, or the power goes out (dont' know too much about them, but I'd assume that there is a power connection for the main unit). It probably WON'T keep your dog in if he's intact and there's a bitch in heat anywhere nearby. Build yourself a fence and quit relying on a completely unreliable system.

[jas'smom]

Wanted to put in a quick word on the e collar thread. My cattle dog Anya is totally deaf and has been from birth. I got her as 3 year old rescue who was about to be euthinized because she was deaf and uncontrollable. All anyone ever did was keep the poor thing in a cage :( :( I was told that I could never have her off leash, that was fine as I could let her run in the fenced in paddock at my parents. Well, I could not find a fence that would keep this Houdini in!! It was either take up marathon running or find a solution that would allow this dog to expend all her pent up energy. This is getting a bit wordy so I will cut to the chase. After discussing this with several trainers I came up with someone in my area that taught the use of these collars. To make a long story short after months of training and work to include hand signals Anya is now a well behaved and happy dog. She is able to go on hour long hikes with me, competes in frisbee contests and is able to expend all that energy and then come home to obedience work. I will be competiting her in the spring. I think that with professional training and work the e collar can be a humane solution to what could have been a death sentenance for Anya. I do not recommed the use of these collars for casual training or without the instruction of a professional who is experienced in the use of them. But for me and Anya they litterly saved a life.

[fbkeays]

I have used an e-collar for training when all other training methods didn't work. I have used clicker training, flat collar, pinch collar, positive reinforcements, negative reinforcements, every thing. When I do use the e-collar, I do so in a controlled situation and only have the problem behavior corrected. If the dog is doing anything else "wrong", I don't use the e-collar. I go in with a goal and don't deviate from it. I don't use it to "fry" the dog either. I use the lowest setting that will give me the desired result from the dog.
My training bag has the e-collar, the slip collar, the flat collar, the tab, the tennis ball on a rope, food rewards, water spray bottle (for drinking) and a long line.

[spoteet]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

If the dog is doing anything else "wrong", I don't use the e-collar. I go in with a goal and don't deviate from it. I don't use it to "fry" the dog either. I use the lowest setting that will give me the desired result from the dog.

That was one of the points I was trying to make earlier and see I didn't. People tend to think that the e-collar is used when the dog is doing something wrong and then it's used on a high setting. I know I did. For example, the dog is doing something wrong and when you would normally say "No" to the dog, you use the collar. Instead the collar is used to reinforce the commands you want. When Sajan starts to get worked up over a dog, I don't wait until he goes for it and then use the collar. Sajan is always in a sit when other dogs are around unless we are doing something. The instant I see him tense up or show any hint of going for a dog, I calmly tell him "sit" and knick him with the collar at the same time. The collar is on a low setting. This gets his attention, he always turns his head to look at me and forgets about the dog. I have already noticed him looking at me on his own when there are dogs around. Last week in our 3 training classes, I didn't have to get his attention off a dog even once.

[babybluetx23]

We have the above ground electric fence. We had it before we had Harley. My German Shephard kept breaking the fence or digging out. We lost her for two weeks. When we got her back we put up the fence. She shocked herself three times and never went near it again. We dont even have to leave it plugged in anymore. She goes in the backyard to play and she is perfectly content.
When we installed it first thing we did was touch it ourselves to see how hard the shock was. It isnt any worse then a minor buzzing on your finger or hand but it was enough that she didnt want to go near it anymore.
I Dont think we are going to use it with Harley. We will keep the fence up, but we arent going to keep it plugged in. That way it is still a visual reminder to the German shephard.

[GenHannibal]

There are a number of threads that have very good posts. Do a search and check it out. E-collars can be an excellent tool, when used correctly, as some of the posts have stated. Please do your research & find a good, knowledgeable trainer to teach you how to use the collar correctly. It is not to replace the foundation training needed for both the dog & handler.

In regards to Invisible Fencing, I would never used it with Rotties, not any other high-prey dog. They can get so high in the adrenanline and go thru the fence. Then when the adrenanline wears off, they can't get back in. Have seen & heard too many situations where the dog gets hurt or lost, etc.

[abroz]

I just had to respond to this thread.

In two days, I have exam with my now 1 year old rotty, so he can pass to the next training class.

Unfortunately, although he is responding to all visual and voice comamnds as it should (from sit, stay, wait, drop, come, etc.), he will fail because of dog-to-dog aggression.

This is the second time we went to basic obedience class, and this time we just went there to try and get rid of this aggression.

I must admit that using (correctly) choke collar did help a bit. Before there was no chance of stopping him from barking, but now I can get his attention after 5-6 corrections and loud "no".

But... His dog-to-dog aggression is still here. So I wlll fail the exam and now have to try something else. It was a bit reassuring to talk to the trainer. She praised work with him and did say that there are a lot of changes in just 6 weeks (just?!), but a lot of work is still to be done, and that e collar is something to consider. She never used it, policy of the club is NO e collar, but privatly she has connected earlier on rotty owner with another trainer and they were successful.

So you may ask, why don't you just continue using choke collar? Well, as I said earlier, it is responding to it, but prevention also has to be in place. To correct him from already doing something wrong is one thing, but to prevent him even considering it is something worth pott of gold!

Maybe I'm trying to persuade mayself to become "cruel" dog owner and use e collar, maybe I'm trying to forget shock collar, but that is something to be considered.

Any good or bad experiences will be more then welcome and words of support too :(

[GenHannibal]

In my opinion, your dog is still young, immature & needs more training. Don't understand what the rush is? You stated that he came a long way in 6-weeks, that's good! He more than likely needs more time & consistent training in order to achieve your goal. As this thread has stated, you must be sure that you know what you are doing when using the e-collar. Make sure that the person you are considering has ample experience in applying it to dog-aggression issues.