Shock Collar

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by spidey

Used properly by skilled people, they can be very effective training tools. Used improperly by unskilled people, they can be physically painful and mentally harmful (just like almost any other piece of equipment, including even flat collars). I don't use one (I clicker train), but some here use them and have great success with them, and I know a couple of trainers who use them as well.

spidey is right.
e-collars, or remote collars (if ya wanna be PC..LOL) can indeed be an effective tool, and can be an integral part of a Positive Training Program.
The dog is taught to "control" the collar, so in effect, it teaches the dog to make choices.
Personally, I like the idea of training with building drives, using rewards, and success, and once the behavior is understood, and somewhat reliable under moderate distraction, then bringing in the e-collar for proofing the behavior under higher distraction.

I would NEVER recommend someone purchasing a unit, and simply trying to figure out how to use it themselves. If you are considering use of this training aid, find a COMPETENT trainer, (preferably one with a behavioral education, that understands how to utilize positive and negative reinforcers) and have them teach you how to use the device.

NEVER use a device like this without testing it ON YOURSELF FIRST, and have the trainer show you which levels are effective for various needs.

Hope this helps you.

Regards,

[abroz]

Thanks - GenHannibal!

But, his current behavior is stopping HIM from making progress.
Since this is not US, we have very little choice on training facilities and trainers. There are only 3 centers in or around city (capital), and not that much good trainers as freelancers.

This school is "top" one, but there only methods are choke collar/treats. This is really good with smaller doogs, but I cannot use correctly choke collar on my rotty.

a) since he has HUGE neck and head, I have to use one that is large, and automaticly it's thick - son no fast return after pulling it
b) when he tries to go after the dog, repetedly pulling is out of the question. This one is strong as a horse and 52kg (sorry, for metric units) and I cannot make choke collar release and pull repetedly - so he is jus choking (and this get's him used on collar).
c) if I want to get him going and even slightly pull collar when he is focused on other dog, he gets it as GO sign and starts pulling.

So I need to get his attention and words, Frolics, food works but only sometimes.

If I do get his attention - and I have sometimes to pull his ears, lift and shout in the ear or something like that :D there is a chance to get him focused on me.

Of course that I would not just go out and buy one and then fry him till he looks at me, but I beleive that this could get his attention even on low setting.

In 6 weeks I changed part of the behavior in "perfect" condition and with mild distractions. But do you know how it feels when in group of 12 people, you are the only one stnading in the line on far side, with extra empty space between you and group. When your dog spends more time with his ears up looking at dogs running around then trying to turn and look you when you call him. Or when you spend first 15 minutes of training class trying to "calm" the dog and focuse him on you, so he would not bark and pull to the first dog that he sees - and this is both phisicly and mentaly EXTREAMLY hard.
[off-topic - but I noticed that he really doesn't like Golden Retrivers]

But, you did write a good point, and give me more to think about ahead of next week scheduled meeting with Attack/Defence trainer for rotties.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by abroz

Thanks - GenHannibal!

But, his current behavior is stopping HIM from making progress.
Since this is not US, we have very little choice on training facilities and trainers. There are only 3 centers in or around city (capital), and not that much good trainers as freelancers.

This school is "top" one, but there only methods are choke collar/treats. This is really good with smaller doogs, but I cannot use correctly choke collar on my rotty.

a) since he has HUGE neck and head, I have to use one that is large, and automaticly it's thick - son no fast return after pulling it
b) when he tries to go after the dog, repetedly pulling is out of the question. This one is strong as a horse and 52kg (sorry, for metric units) and I cannot make choke collar release and pull repetedly - so he is jus choking (and this get's him used on collar).
c) if I want to get him going and even slightly pull collar when he is focused on other dog, he gets it as GO sign and starts pulling.

So I need to get his attention and words, Frolics, food works but only sometimes.

If I do get his attention - and I have sometimes to pull his ears, lift and shout in the ear or something like that :D there is a chance to get him focused on me.

Of course that I would not just go out and buy one and then fry him till he looks at me, but I beleive that this could get his attention even on low setting.

In 6 weeks I changed part of the behavior in "perfect" condition and with mild distractions. But do you know how it feels when in group of 12 people, you are the only one stnading in the line on far side, with extra empty space between you and group. When your dog spends more time with his ears up looking at dogs running around then trying to turn and look you when you call him. Or when you spend first 15 minutes of training class trying to "calm" the dog and focuse him on you, so he would not bark and pull to the first dog that he sees - and this is both phisicly and mentaly EXTREAMLY hard.
[off-topic - but I noticed that he really doesn't like Golden Retrivers]

But, you did write a good point, and give me more to think about ahead of next week scheduled meeting with Attack/Defence trainer for rotties.

There are thin choke collars which will fit the circumfrence of your dog's neck available. You'll want to make sure the links are of a shape which allows the collar to slip back and forth easily, and there is only about 2 inches of play in the collar. If it's too long, or the links are too big, or made so they don't slide easily (like a fursaver), correction is not effective.

Try training with less distractions (farther away), and notice your dog's body language BEFORE he acts.... this should help some.

Hope this helps.

[GenHannibal]

Abroz, I do know what you are going thru. One of the ways I've dealt with my dog agressive bitch, was to watch her body language. As soon as I thought she would start her "attitude", I would put her into a sit position. She would get corrected for leaving that position. And, yes she had to focus on me. Perhaps you have not done enough work with the focus in neutral areas? Sometimes, we go too fast into higher distraction situations, especially with an dog like yours. give the corrections properly. It needs to be done in smaller doses. And, yes a better collar would help you to give the corrections properly. Let us know how you make out with the Attack/Defense trainer.