Jumping from A to Z by Chris Zink

[DNeff]

Here's a link to photos of Riven in a V jump and him jumping in the V jump setup. Plus a few photos of using a diagonally placed bar in a jump chute to help your dog take off sooner.
http://members.aol.com/agilityrotties/

Here's the link to some brief notes on using the V jump and working a jump chute. Both of which are critical foundation skills for a jumping rottie.
http://members.aol.com/agilityrotties/Notes.htm

Let me know if you have questions, or if any of it is unclear.

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[BostonRott]

Wow!

VERY cool pics!! How were they taken? I'm guessing they're digital, high end digital SLR? REALLY nice way to analyze one's dog's jumping style!

Question: was the dog started essentially in front of the jump, from a still position?

Reason I ask is because the dog is demonstrating what I would call a popped jump, i.e. he's taking off immediately in front of the jump (as evidenced by his head being between the standards on take off), and he shows no distance in his landing.

I know that part of running Froli is knowing how far out she takes off for the jump, as well as how far past the jump she'll land (and when I need to turn her ... before or after). Typically, when a dog is jumping at speed, the trajectory of the dog is far flatter than what is depicted here.

[Brooke&Ryan]

Wow Dawn, those are awesome pictures. I was scrolling down the pages really fast & it's like one of those flip-books. :D Awesome!

:)
Brooke

[DNeff]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Wow!

VERY cool pics!! How were they taken? I'm guessing they're digital, high end digital SLR? REALLY nice way to analyze one's dog's jumping style!

Thanks, I took them with the movie feature on my digital camera and then took shots from that for the single frame demo.
The camera is fairly old at this point in digital camera years, about three years or more, it's a medium cost Olympus.

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Question: was the dog started essentially in front of the jump, from a still position?

Reason I ask is because the dog is demonstrating what I would call a popped jump, i.e. he's taking off immediately in front of the jump (as evidenced by his head being between the standards on take off), and he shows no distance in his landing.

This technique was taught to me by Kathy Keats to teach rear end propulsion. The dog is started in a sit (Riven wasn't too keen on the idea of sitting in the snow while I set up with the camera, so he is standing) and then jumps. If you read the notes on the second page, it explains the technique step by step. This helps the dog understand how to push off from the rear instead of using his front end. Many dogs tend to use their front legs to push off, which can lead to lots of front end injuries or long term wear. You will typically hear a "huffing" noise from dogs who push off on the front to jump. By teaching a dog it is less work to propel from the rear you will help influence their "current" jumping style and end up with a more balanced jumping style that is a combination of pushing off from the rear and still keeping a somewhat flat trajectory.

Previously trainers like Susan Garrett recommended training this with the dog jumping in to you, but Kathy, who works with Susan, said this is now more preferred due the fact that the dog is more able to land naturally, than if he were landing in front position. This helps a dog in tight AKC courses that may at times require rounding and propulsion to bounce several close jumps.

Originally Posted by BostonRott

I know that part of running Froli is knowing how far out she takes off for the jump, as well as how far past the jump she'll land (and when I need to turn her ... before or after). Typically, when a dog is jumping at speed, the trajectory of the dog is far flatter than what is depicted here.

Agreed, as does Riven. Here's a picture of Riven in one of his flat flying poses on a gamblers course:

http://members.aol.com/agilityrottie...ing_photos.htm

However, I feel it is very important for obedience dogs to learn to propel from the rear since many times they have very little space to jump the high jump, retrieve the dumbbell and return with any real speed. Since that is what Laurie is working on, I figured the rear propulsion exercise would be a help, along with the jump chute exercise.

Hope that makes sense.

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Miabella]

Oh wow, this is fantastic stuff! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

[Rottlva]

Dawn, What a great explanation. Beautifully demonstrated too!

[Judi W]

Finally got a chance to look at the pictures. The question I have is why start the dog so close to the jump? It seems to me this removes the ability of the dog to gallop, adjust take off position for the height of the jump and makes it necessary for the dog to spike the jump which is so very hard on the fronts. Dog has to pop straight up in the air and as a result, also comes straight down on the other side removing the flex of a stretched out landing. One of the things I think is not good for the larger bodied dogs on many agility courses is when the jumps are set minimum distance apart so they barely have a single stride between them. Considering that agility has so many jumps this can really take a toll on the fronts. When I have someone with a dog that has jumping problems, I have them give the dog more distance not less in their approach to the jump.

[DNeff]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Finally got a chance to look at the pictures. The question I have is why start the dog so close to the jump? It seems to me this removes the ability of the dog to gallop, adjust take off position for the height of the jump and makes it necessary for the dog to spike the jump which is so very hard on the fronts. Dog has to pop straight up in the air and as a result, also comes straight down on the other side removing the flex of a stretched out landing. One of the things I think is not good for the larger bodied dogs on many agility courses is when the jumps are set minimum distance apart so they barely have a single stride between them. Considering that agility has so many jumps this can really take a toll on the fronts. When I have someone with a dog that has jumping problems, I have them give the dog more distance not less in their approach to the jump.

If you read the notes that are also posted (http://members.aol.com/agilityrotties/Notes.htm) about the V Jump which is what Riven is demonstrating, you will see that this is purely to help teach a dog to propel from the rear. Just to build strength and understanding of the use of the hindquarters to push off. It is not used to teach proper jump striding or take off and landing points, etc... That is what a jump chute is for. This exercise strictly focuses on teaching the dog to use their rear. It is not something you do much of at a time, but it is recommend to help dogs who don't naturally use their rear to propel. When used in conjunction with jump chute training it can greatly help their overall jumping style.

Because many agility courses are much too tight, this skill (using their rear to propel) is so critical and needs to be taught as part of a total jumping training.

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Judi W]

gottcha. That's what I get for not taking the time to follow all the links!

[spoteet]

Great pics! I can't wait to get Sajan into agility :)

[BostonRott]

Ok,that's the same thing that Julie Daniels teaches, and same reasons WHY she teaches it......so that if the dog comes up short in a run, they know how to round themselves and get over the jump without problem.

Yet another tool in the toolbox. :) Julie incorporates this work in her "grids," it's very cool. There's an article in Clean Run on some of her work. :)

[Miabella]

Well, I received the book yesterday in the mail, and I really like it so far (read about half-way through last night).

I would also recommend this book to anyone who is interested in learning about structure and how it determines athletic ability, there is a really good discussion in the first couple chapters with lots of diagrams and illustrations.