advice again

[debbiej]

today I took Hilda, 7 mo old pup I've had a month, out with me to do errands, intending to stop at an athletic field on the way home to do some walking in 'civilization'. She is very obedient and well behaved at home. Since I've had her we have visited a few friends with friendly dogs, a few pet stores and coffee shops and met lots of people. she has been good and friendly--a little distracted at the pet stores, but pretty well behaved. We haven't attended obedience classes because there are none going on right now in our area to attend. I had her on a regular leash and a flat collar with a loop to tighten if she pulls. not exactly a choke collar, no noise, but not just a flat collar either. By the time we got there is was dusk. When we got out of the car, she was excited to get out and was pulling. Made her sit and we started out again. There was a group of people playing soccer on the field and their yelling & running really got her into another gear. She was not paying attention to me at all. We walked a bit, away from the game but she was just too wound up. I made her just sit then we walked back to the car. My first instinct is to put a prong collar on her and take her back there tomorrow. I know how to use them, I have used them on other dogs in obedience classes. I think they work better than a choke chain and are easier on the dog, but I have never had a rottie before. I have read the differing opinions on this forum about using them on young dogs. I personally think how she acted today would justify training her with the prong collar, but I need advice to know if it would be jumping the gun to do that since she hasn't had that gradual increase of building obedience through training. I realize what happend today was just too much stimulation for her level of experience and training but it was an eye-opener for me and I want to get down to business with training her. any advice would be appreciated.

[Rott-Wiley]

Usually I'm not against the use of a prong collar when properly used. From what you described I don't think this situation merits the use of a prong. If she knew what was expected of her and simply chose to not pay any attention to you that would be a different situation entirely. To punish her for not paying attention to you when you were the one that put her in an ultimate distraction situation doesn't seem fair to me. Or am I misunderstanding something here?

[excellrott]

You should really do a class before deciding to use prong. Just so she has a foundation for your expectations before getting corrections of this magnitude. A prong collar is a very effective attention getter BTW, once she knows her stuff.

[debbiej]

she knows how to heel, but was way to overwhelmed to calm down and pay attention. When we got out of the car, and the men running around yelling got her attention, her reaction took me by surprise. I don't think she was being aggressive, just over excited. We got away from the men, but she just wouldn't calm down. My first reaction was that she was ignoring me, and I needed to train using the prong to get her attention, but as I think about it, if she was just overstimulated might a prong collar just add to that? I didn't get angry, It just surprised me she wouldn't listen to me at all. I had her sit till she calmed down, gave treats (I took along liver biscotti) and went back to the car. I guess the real issue is using it before she is clear on what she is expected to do? So until we can start class, I guess I should just keep working on basics, taking her places and gradually increasing distractions. When it is clear she is choosing to ignore me, I'll reconsider. I hadn't though of a prong collar as punishment though, just a correction that is more effective. If used with a quick correction and release, isn't it better than a choke chain? The dog it was suggested I use it on was very hardheaded, it made all the difference in the world in the training of that dog. but I want to train her in the way that will be the most effective for her personality and breed.

[excellrott]

Until formal classes most puppies aren't given corrections, because it supposed to be nothing but fun associated with training. This way they look forward to training and you can introduce the distractions a little at a time and up it as you up the rewards and praise.

[debbiej]

this morning I've come to the conclusion that Hilda is a very smart, affectionate and attuned pup. she does what I show her because of her good nature, and she wants to, not because she is well trained...yet. So I can't expect her to act like a well trained rottie in every situation. She has very good house manners, and as I've been taking her places and being pleased with her good nature and common sense, I have mistaken this for obedience. So we will proceed with fun, training & non-stressful situations untill we can start classes.

[Rott-Wiley]

That's great, I think you're doing the right thing. :)

[LynnS]

Debbie

One thing to remember is that when you are training, you should not expect your dog to behave with the same attentiveness when other things are competing for her attention. You must teach her to work around distractions gradually.

Asking for a sit at home and asking for a sit at the park with a soccer game going on around her is like going from a scale of "0" to "100" on the distraction meter.

I also needed to remind myself constantly that I was dealing with a puppy and although this is not an excuse to NOT train, extreme patience is the key....

[debbiej]

thanks for all the helpful advice.
I think another thing that worried me (and surprised me) was how menacing she appeared to the people running on the field. Poor girl, it was just getting dark and they must have frightened her. I am apalled at how unaware I was.

[Luvs]

Originally posted by debbiej
thanks for all the helpful advice.
I think another thing that worried me (and surprised me) was how menacing she appeared to the people running on the field. Poor girl, it was just getting dark and they must have frightened her. I am apalled at how unaware I was.

Debbie, you mentioned that she appeared menacing to the people on the field, what exactly was she doing? Was she just being an excited pup and wanting to go play with them?

Maybe try taking her there early so it's totally light out. Does she have a favorite toy? Something that I have found REALLY helps Akasha pay attention to me is taking her tug with me. If I start playing tug with her I have her undivided attention and can usually keep her focused on me. It also helps when I see her start to get stressed about something. I get out her tug and play with her and redirect her attention on me and she soon forgets what she was stressed about. Akasha is ONLY allowed to play with her tug during training so that she doesn't loose interest.

Hopefully you will be able to get her into obedience classes soon. She will really benefit a great deal from them.
Good luck! Have fun with your girl;)

[debbiej]

Hi Carol, well, we got out of the car, the group playing ball were not right near us, but across the street and away from the sidewalk by a bit of a distance. I had her sit before we crossed the street, and when we got to the sidewalk, I had her sit again. About that time they started running and yelling and she stood up and barked at them, and her stance was somewhat aggressive. At first she was surprised and frightened by their actions. I agree, if it had been light, and they hadn't caught her by surprise, I'm sure she would have wanted to run and play with them. He bark was scared changing to excited, not vicious. I grabbed her scruff told her no bark, commanded sit and she sat, then told her heel, and took her off the sidewalk onto the field away from the players and the pedestrians walking up the sidewalk because I could see she had decided to bark at them too, which she did anyway. I scolded her for barking at them, and then I had her sit on the grass off the sidewalk. After another man had walked past us on the sidewalk and she didn't bark at him, I praised her gave her a treat and we tried walking around on the field a little. She was quite excitable, sniffing at the grass like crazy, nipping at my hands and pockets for treats, and generally wired up-no attention to me at all. I like LynnS's description: 0 to 100 on the distraction meter! exactly!! time to go home and be more careful next time. I didn't like people looking nervously at my sweet puppy, but she wasn't acting like my sweet pup either. thanks. debbie

[laurlitt]

Like others have said, gradual distractions is the key... About a month ago I decided to take my 17 month (fairly well trained) female to the park for some distractions... Well, I don't think any young dog could handle what we encountered... An agility class w/ lots of small dogs and overly excited handlers, a puppy obedience class next to agility, a soccer game, and a bunch of 10 year old girls practicing their cheerleading skills. This was all going on within a stones throw away... Needless to say Maddie was on extreme overload and I was a bit frustrated but instead of demanding obedience from her I took her to a corner farthest away from the distractions and worked on a long down... She's ready for more distractions now... but sometimes too much is too much!

A week prior I had her next to a soccer game in a long down (she was doing okay) when all of a sudden the soccer ball hit a lamp post and took a detour directly at Maddie... What's a girl to do but grab the darn thing... I thought for sure I'd have to buy the players a new ball!!!

Good Luck

[LynnS]

One other comment (and this takes some time to really do well).

It is extremely helpful when you can anticipate her reaction in certain situations and assert yourself BEFORE the dog is in that excitable state.

An example would be I see some kids down the street playing ball. I know that my spazzola girl will become crazy dog at the site of the ball. Before we get close enough for her to be completely focused on the activity I ask for her to watch me while we are walking. On a good day I can actually keep her focus as we pass the minefield LOL!