Jumping up on tables and agressive play

[LICrottie]

Hi all, I am back again for more advice.

Josie is now 6 months old and doing quite well with her obedience training. I am having issues with 2 things and wanted to ask for help.

When we are at home Josie has started jumping on tables and counters (just her front paws). I immediatley correct her and tell her 'NO' and 'OFF', and she listens, but I feel like she is turning it into a game. The second I turn my back she will do it again. I can see her getting ready to do it and I yell 'NO' and she will just walk to another table or counter out of my sight and do it there. My trainer advises a rap on the nose with the back of my hand, but I have read so many places to NEVER hit a rottie. When she jumped on me I used to grab her paws and she stopped that pretty fast, but it's hard to do that when she's facing the countertop.

Problem #2. As 6 month old Josie has an excellent temperment, We often go to the local dog run so she can play with the other dogs off the leash. I think she is pretty well socialized as she adjusted her play for bigger and smaller dogs. The problem arises when we are the only one's in the dog run. Josie will nip at me (pulling at my pant leg) to get me to play with her, as she would with another dog. Everynow and then she catches skin with her front teeth and it feels like a damn horse bite (Smarts!). I give her a few stern 'NO's' but she will keep coming at me until I chase her away. There we have game #2. I have tried using balls and frisbees, but she will just retrieve the ball and go right back to my pant leg. When other dogs are there her favorite game is to retrieve the ball and let them chase her around. The game used to be only in the dog run when there were no other dogs to play with, but it is expanding to anywhere she is off the leash and decides she wants to play, i.e. the backyard or when I am on the phone (she is really bad when I am on the phone). How do I get my point across that I am not just another dog to roll around the park with? Again my obedience trainer said a small rap on the top of the nose should stop it.

I guess my real question is are "raps" on the top of the nose considered hitting or not?

[Rott-Wiley]

Yes, it is definately considered hitting and should never be done to correct a dog. The only thing that will accomplish is to convey to the dog that you are unreliable and prone to violence. Josie is at a very bad age for listening now and this is the time you need to build a good strong working relationship with her. Jumping on tables and counters is something she figured out that there may be something good up there for her to have or take. So first of all, try not to leave things within her view or reach to tempt her to continue doing that. Next work on your voice control over her so that when you tell her to get off she will listen. Also don't allow her to treat you like another dog. It's fine to play with her but try to play games that will also teach her something or improve her behavior. Fetching a ball is really good but structure it so that she will wait on command and only go when you release her and then bring the ball back and politely give it to you. That won't happen overnight, you'll need to work at it and develop that in her. And that's not going to happen by rapping her on the nose.

[LICrottie]

That's exactly what I thought in re: to the "raps". I will work on structuring play time a little more.

[Willabeast]

They are just like kids, aren't they. Especially when you are on the phone. Just remember you are the alpha of your pack even if it's just the two of you. You decide when pack members eat, play, where they sleep, get affection everything. When she demands, (and that is what she is doing,) play.....refuse. leave her alone, turn your back anything. Then later play, and you decide when its finished and give your command. I use either "quit" or "enough" My Willow is 8 months old and vveeerrry orally inclined. So I appreciate your battle. But as Rott-Wiley says they are at that difficult age, feeling their oats and testing their boundries. In fact Rott-Wiley, this is for you......Thanks for helping me realize just how much I was letting those little guys of mine get away with. It was monkey see monkey do. Thanks

[Carina43]

Yeah, no hitting, it's not the most intelligent way to train any dog. We humans are the ones with big complex brains, there's better ways! I
did some classes with a trainer who advocated the hitting & jerking method of training. She had GSDs, even had obedience titles on more than one of her dogs, they were definitely "well trained."
Every single one of her dogs was somewhat hand shy, too. :( Her dogs seemed to lack spirit, they obeyed because they had to, not because it was enjoyable or rewarding...

I'd find a good basic obedience class - and not with the person who suggested the nose rapping.

Leave a leash on Josie, so you can correct her BEFORE she gets on the counters or whatever. Seems like right now she is almost making it a game, like saying "neener neener, so make me...!" :p
I remember that phase...seems I had to go back to the basics a bit with Cooper when he went through his snotty brat age.