long down stay

[debbiej]

we started sit, down & stay for a long period of time today with Hilda, 7 mo old, who we have had about a month. the first 10 min or so were fine. after that she wanted to get up, and I had to keep putting her back in place. After a while she got pretty funny. talking back, licking and mouthing me, rolling over on her back, chewing her feet, just generally acting very frustrated. she finally did give up and settle down. and after she had been quiet for a while, I released her. She has learned sit, down and stay, she walks nicely. generally obedient but this seemed to push her complience. Is this type of excercise still considered a good thing to do with the dog? I started by sitting in a chair, but soon sat on the floor beside her to keep her laying down. we were aiming for half hour and she was evidently bored and frustrated, is a toy acceptable during this excercise?

[Luvs]

I personally feel that she is too young to be in a down stay for that long. Why are you wanting her to be in a down stay for 30 minutes?

[Judi W]

I start my pups learning to lie quietly in a spot I choose when they are young. It is not as formal as a true obedience stay, but rather "here is where I want you to be until I excuse you." It is usually done beside my chair and after a few minutes they relax and accept it. I do this with the leash on and no interaction except to replace the pup if it gets up. Attention and interaction tends to stimulate the pup and what I want is them to learn to rest quietly and accepting in a spot I have chosen. This is very helpful when there is company or business going on.

[debbiej]

I guess we were trying for that long because that is what I had either read or heard in a class once. I think it was along the lines of the out-of-favor 'alpha down', not forceful just persistant in keeping the dog stay down next to you. I do hope later she would be able to lay down and stay somewhere for a while when asked, but that may be better taught later, and in some other way. I wasn't trying for a real 'rigid' down stay, just the idea that she should settle down and stay when I asked. I didn't pick a time to try this when she was crazy. So that was my question, how long is too long? I wondered about it when it became a bit of a struggle. not a wrestling match, but evidently not something she wanted to do. she did give up and lay quietly finally, and then after a few more minutes I told her ok, and she got up all happy. she is becoming much more outgoing, a little mouthy and not as timid as she was when I first got her. I want her well trained, but I don't want to go about it in the wrong way.

[poohbearsmom]

If you have a 7month old pup that will down stay for 10 minutes, give yourself a cookie. :D

Perhaps releasing her from the down before she wants to break it, and giving her a nice round of play for reward will reinforce that if she downs till you free her, she's done good.

I like Judi's method of young pup placement. :) I will try that on the next pup.

[debbiej]

I can't take the cookie, it's because she is so agreeable, and someone else must have done some good basic training before i got her. Plus I was sitting next to her and next to me is where she wants to be. The idea in the reply from Judi is, I think what I was trying to do, but wasn't sure exactly how. Next time we will use chair, leash, less interaction and we will stay there for a lot less time, and gradually increase and have a playtime after. much thanks

[Digger]

Can't keep my kids still that long. Sorta long to me. 5 minutes and it is time for cookies. It has to be fun.


Digger

Please do not post links to breeder websites

[Judi W]

There is a big difference between static exercises and moving exercises. Static exercises have the goal of calmness and comfort. Food stimulates movement and is not appropriate for static requests.

[Digger]

Hiram ( 6 month old dog) will stay down as long as I want him. He just lays out and takes a nap. I see the difference.


Digger

Von Helken Rottweilers

[debbiej]

well, that is what I was trying to accomplish, but she got squirmy and kept trying to get up. all I did was put her back with a minimum of interaction. but it became a bit of a struggle. so I moved from my chair to the floor next to her, kept reading a book and kept placing her back. I didn't care if she laid on her side or back or what, just to stay down there with me. At that point (I didn't know how long we'd been trying, I don't think we made it to 30 minutes though). I just wanted her stay there with me till she gave up. as soon as she had laid quietly for a few minutes (after the struggle) I told her ok and praised her. Is that a good way to continue to teach her to obey the command go lie down when I need her to be out of the way-in a comfortable spot? Or should I just crate her? I'd much rather she learn to be out of the way and still "with us".

[Judi W]

This is not formal so there are not "rules". I start out in a chair because I do not never get down on the floor and wrestle with my dog. When you are on the floor you lose status advantage.

I loop the leash around the bottom chair rung and then to my hand. I have it short enough that the dog has no choice but to settle down. I don't get into anything physical beyond that. Physical interaction stimulates movement. This is where we start, and then gradually move with leash loose and move on to the dog being a short distance until it can be in a place across the room. Teaching this is a gradual thing.

[debbiej]

Judi, thanks for the help and advice. makes sense to me!