Excellent Warning for Anyone Looking for a Trainer...

[alexav]

Recently, it has come to my attention that there is a shrewd business man spreading his "methods" of e-collar misuse/abuse and his disciples are turning up darned near everywhere. He teaches them the BUSINESS of convincing you that what they are doing is a Good thing. I have seen with my own eyes many times that it is NOT.
We need to watch out for these people and recognize the red flags.

The paragraph in bold is posted with the permission of the Author, Sgt. Don Yarnall. In his email to me he included these words of wisdom and I want to share them too.

I believe there are two types of people that become followers of the Jim Jones’ in our world of training dogs. It seems there is a human need to believe in magic and the gullible are blinded by the sorcerer’s verbal fairy dust. The second type is unscrupulous who sees a new and faster way of separating others from their money. Either way it is our friend the dog that suffers.

Here is his warning. I believe it applies to all dog owners.

WARNING TO ALL POLICE AND SERVICE DOG PEOPLE

There now appears to be some pet trainers and snake oil salesmen about touting their magical abilities to cure all and fix all using an electric remote collar. Anyone that works a dog in any type of scent work should stay as far away from one of these characters as possible. Electricity is a very powerful tool that can be a quick fix with long lasting, devastating consequences. Here are a few clues that let you know you are dealing with someone dangerous:


1. The “trainer” will never answer a question directly. He or she will stick to their sales training and divert attention away from what you originally asked. Do not let anyone that cannot explain his or her training techniques in plain language put an e-collar on your dog!

2. It is human nature to want to believe in magic – but there is no magic in working dogs. It takes years of hard work, trial and error, and a thorough understanding of what motivates a working dog in order for a trainer to keep the balance in your dog. If the person does not have verifiable, extensive training experience in your field, do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

3. Stay far away from anyone that disregards every accepted training technique and theory and wants to show you his divinely inspired methods. If they tell you there is only one drive – “Because I said so!” drive – do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

4. If the person has never applied his techniques on actual deployments – or has never successfully trained a dog in your particular discipline - Do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

5. If the dogs he shows are nervous, anxious, and or suppressed, or clearly anticipating control commands - do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

6. Anyone that uses stimulation to compel a dog to search or engage in combat is a dangerous fool. Do not let this person get within 100 yards of your dog!

7. The trainer creates a “safe place” for your dog using electricity. This safe place can be called anything and is usually applied to heeling, downing, the send out, etc. If the trainer creates a “safe place” in any way, shape, or form – do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

8. If the trainer achieves immediate, exacting precision with problem dogs, it is an indication that the trainer is using pure punishment techniques and is not interested in keeping the dog balanced. Do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

9. If you frequently hear vocalization or see overt reactions to the stimulations it is a clear indication that the “trainer” is using high levels of stimulation and strict compulsion. Do not let this person put an e-collar on your dog!

10. If you happened to have let this pet trainer work your dog, you may be initially impressed with the control he has achieved. However, a day or two later, when your dog has shut down, refuses to search, or searches and misses the easy find, you will be saying to yourself – “I shouldn’t have let that person put an e-collar on my dog!”

We put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, not to mention years, into training our service dogs. It is difficult if not impossible for others to understand what failure means in police or SAR deployments. We know how deadly serious our operations are. Be very afraid of anyone that has no or little experience in your area that wants to show you how he does it. Remember, he has never done it. Also remember that control is but a small part of the whole picture of a working dog. What you do in obedience directly effects searching, man work, etc. We all work very hard to select the dog with proper drives. We all work hard to establish the intense working attitude in the dog, and using those drives to our advantage. For someone to come along and destroy that attitude and motivation is a tragedy. Even more tragic, that lost little girl may not be found because you let someone unqualified in your field to put that e-collar on your dog.


Regards

Donn Yarnall

[excellrott]

Wow, powerful message. I know I will be sticking to the tried and tru methods & no e-collar :( Thanks for the warning

[JeanT]

Thanks !!

I believe that Donn Yarnall developed the Dogtra ecollar, is that correct ? And that he is retired from head position (whatever the title) of L.A.P.D. K-9 ?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Donn Yarnall is not saying the ecollar is bad, rather he is warning about learning how to apply it from the merchandising master snake oil salesman who is building a business empire selling his quick-results-but-more-importantly-make lots-of-money-selling-like-I-do school ?

A google search under "snake oil sales" will not yet bring up the information, but I happened to find a site under "Hassen" where the owner and head trainer has absolutely no hands-on experience in training and working service dogs. He must be an expert, though, because he is the founder and president of his own company which has lots of self-generated media coverage. He also happens to be targeting K9 service dog groups all over the country. His miracles are for sale, along with instruction on how to sell them to JQP so you get your initial investment back.

Sorry, I'd write more, but I have to go to settlement on a unique time-share deal for the only two weeks of the year when the palm trees appear and the temperature averages 85 degrees and sunny on a small island in the Antarctic. Can you believe someone tried to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge last week ? Pish, I'd never fall for that old scam!

[alexav]

Jean, here is more info on Sgt. Yarnall. (From his website.)

Sergeant Donn Yarnall enjoyed a career of nearly 28 years with the Los Angeles Police Department. Sgt. Yarnall's involvement with the Department's service dogs began in 1974 with the training of the first Department K9 to search for criminals. In 1977, Sgt. Yarnall established the LAPD Narcotic Detector Dog Section. The program was so successful, it sets the example today for proficiency and correctness.

In 1980, Sgt. Yarnall established the LAPD K9 Section. Again, the program was an instant success and grew to exemplify a prestigious and highly trained Dog Section that eventually included FEMA Certified Advanced Urban Search And Rescue K9's.

Over the years, Los Angeles has stood as the testing ground for criminal groups and individuals. Consequently, Sgt. Yarnall continuously adapted training, deployment, search, and tactical techniques to meet the ever increasing violence and sophisticated armed criminals faced daily by K9 handlers. At the time of Sgt. Yarnall's retirement, 60% of the searches conducted by LAPD K9's were for armed, high risk suspects with a 40%+ find ratio (national find average is 28%).

Sgt. Yarnall is also a veteran of the "K9 Litigation Wars" of the 1990's, fought initially in the L.A. Area. He was appointed to lead LAPD's defense in these actions and is credited by Chief Of Police Daryl Gates as being the person responsible for the successful defense of police service dog programs on local as well as national levels. The Los Angeles Assistant City Attorney in charge of the Police Litigation Section stated that Sgt. Yarnall is the best expert witness he has ever used. His testimony, expertise , candor, and training system has been lauded by juries and Courts throughout the U.S. as exemplary.

Sgt. Yarnall's Training System is a result of many years of experience in one of the toughest and most diverse criminal environments in the world. The System is a balance of intensity and focus; hardness and control. It is a system designed to allow the average K9 Team to deploy as safely and reliably as the best K9 Teams. It is a system based on simplicity, channeling the individual dog's abilities, and a clear understanding of the responsibilities of a modern K9 Team.

JeanT;
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Donn Yarnall is not saying the ecollar is bad, rather he is warning about learning how to apply it from the merchandising master snake oil salesman who is building a business empire selling his quick-results-but-more-importantly-make lots-of-money-selling-like-I-do school ?

Right. And yes he had a hand in testing and developing the Dogtra but I'm not sure of any more detail than that...

[UnclLou]

Sgt. Donn Yarnall, one of my oldest friends, spent about two decades using another brand of Ecollar than Dogtra. That other brand was used because of it's record for reliability and the unreliability of other brands at that time.

But several years ago Dogtra (with assistance from someone from that other company) developed a system that allowed for the stim level to change without interruption. But their problem was still one of reliability. And so they replaced their entire quality control and production staff, and in the process raised their reliability level higher than that of the other company. Now they're about the same.

But Dogtra makes the only waterproof transmitter (the collar units from all the manufacturers are waterproof) of the major manufacturers. They make the only system that allows you to change the stim level continuously, similar to a dimmer switch on a light bulb. This allows unprecedented clarity in communicating with the dogs.

And the units are about 1/3 the size of size of the other manufacturers products. They do make one that's comparable in size but it can't come close when you compare features.

Donn didn't develop the Dogtra Ecollar but he was one of the earliest testers of it and now he uses that brand exclusively. BTW so do I. I still have three or four units of that other brand, I haven't even taken them out of the drawer since I got my Dogtras.

[valdes43]

Hey Lou,

Is the transmitter water proof or water-resistant?? I want to swear it's resistant unless something has changed. I predominantly use dogtra and really like them but I've had a decent number of collars come out of the package defective.

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Alexa,

Is Jim Jones the name of the guy? He's (Donn) definitely right though, that's not the only trainer out there using the ecollar that way. It's a shame because it really is an invaluable tool if used properly.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by excellrott
. I know I will be sticking to the tried and tru methods & no e-collar :(

That's NOT what was implied in this message. This is about a specific trainer and his follewers and NOT a bash on E-Collars. Don Yarnall is a well known, well respected, e-collar user.

[alexav]

Originally posted by valdes43

Alexa,

Is Jim Jones the name of the guy? He's (Donn) definitely right though, that's not the only trainer out there using the ecollar that way. It's a shame because it really is an invaluable tool if used properly.

LOL, No. The Jim Jones reference was the infamous "Reverend" Jim Jones that coerced all those people into thinking his perverse way was right. Seemed a fitting tribute.;)

[UnclLou]

valdes43 wrote: Is the transmitter water proof or water-resistant?? I want to swear it's resistant unless something has changed. I predominantly use dogtra and really like them but I've had a decent number of collars come out of the package defective.

LC: Both the 1200 and the 2000 lines are waterproof. I've left my 1200 in a sink–full of water overnight. I've not had the "defective" problem you refer to but like any company, they're not perfect. They will replace or repair any defective unit out of the box, at no charge.

LC: If you have a problem, let me know.

[excellrott]

[That's NOT what was implied in this message.]

Iknow what you meant....I meant that I just know that I would not be able to use it correctly and my dog would end up possibly electracuted or something:D[

[valdes43]

Originally posted by UnclLou


LC: If you have a problem, let me know.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[rottnvegas]

I have the Dogtra myself and yes, the transmitter and reciever are waterproof.

Anyway, back to the original topic, Mr. Yarnall is not saying the use of the e-collar is bad, he is saying a "certain" huckster who promotes the e-collar is bad.

That huckster is none other than the greedy dog abusing Fred Hassen.

I have seen him "work" his dogs and I can tell you, it was nothing short of medievel torture. The dog's were not happy, quite the contrary, they were screaming in pain.

On the other hand, I have learned to use the e-collar in a very humane way. "The gentle guidance system" as it is called.

It is a tried and trued method that works very well and has achieved international succes.

Hassen's method on the other hand are just usually regarded as cruel and inhumane.