Ended e collar lesson - right or wrong?

[UnclLou]

I just discovered that this Forum doesn't allow links to other forums. So the link I gave to my article on "The Myth of Perfect Timing" never appeared.

I just added it to the Training section of this Forum for those who are interested.

[UnclLou]

Storm wrote: "Total Obedience" what a vague "thing". Once again, within what facet of training? What level of obedience? For what purpose? In conjunction with what other aspects? This statement sounds like "five sessions national or world level obedience" once again basic areas covered but don't conn yourself into thinking that this application produces a "world qualifier" in that time span with that approach.

LC: Of course it doesn't and I don't use the term "Total Obedience." Five lessons give the average pet owner, whatever that is, control of their dog. The dog will walk on a loose leash, sit, down (or whatever other behaviors have been asked for) reliably, in the face of all common distractions. If you want competition level performance, that takes longer.

LC: Sorry for the mis–communication. I was focused on the phrase "five lessons" and not "Total OB."

[Storm]

I can fully see the approach you describe and sure you will get a response from the dog applied correctly and sure it is a form of training but for many of us attitude, drive and driving with attitude into positions for reward/release all collectively moulds a dog that goes out there with intention. By starting a dogs outlook by "avoiding discomfort" like I said sure you will get a response BUT for a specific intention, this approach alone, missing many various other aspects, is a waste of time and futile approach. The dog misses out on very important drive development, the ability to work in drive, holding drive, capping and the ability to release etc. drive is a very important aspect of performance and attitude, through the avoidance of discomfort thus learning how to terminate stim and this ALONE in development.................it falls so short of many needs and will not do! But hey for some people, maybe that is all they need, their choice I guess. If all actions are taught using basic drive manipulation with the development thereof, there is no need what so ever for electric as the foundation is in place, having addressed many other aspects at the same time. Development to me means from the age of 7 weeks, once again showing how resourceful drive can be utilised at even such a young age for learning phases. Sure if I can teach a very young dog this way addressing all this for what wait till the dog is so much older and start by addressing it with such a shallow, limited concept?

[Sansano]

I don't have a lot to add here but I will say that the problem you ran into was more about the type of e-collar training than the e-collar itself. I would not spend a dime on any "Fred Hassan" trainers. Fred Hassan seminars are a five ring circus and he is in the business of marketing and NOT training. Lou is probably just too professional to say anything negative on the board about Fred but do take the time to read Lou's articles.

[alexav]

Originally posted by Sansano
Lou is probably just too professional to say anything negative on the board about Fred....

And then there's me.....;)

[Sansano]

Originally posted by alexav
And then there's me.....;)

Yes, Honest. Good for you!

[UnclLou]

Mike Sansano wrote: Lou is probably just too professional to say anything negative on the board about Fred but do take the time to read Lou's articles.

LC: Hi Mike. I seem to be a lightning rod for Fred. When I write what I've seen he'll come on with a long winded argument that, among other things accuses me of jealousy both personal and professional. It usually clogs up a board for days and winds up in everyone being soured on Ecollars, when the real issue is how they're use, as you said.

LC: I'd just prefer to let others make their comments about what they've personally seen. I've already made mine and they can be seen if anyone is desirous of that.

[Patty1231]

Sounds to me that the two doofuses (how's that for a spelling nightmare!) should put the e-collars on and charge themselves up! Glad you got away from those guys - sound like a couple macho losers to me!

[valdes43]

JeanT,

I caught this thread today. Please PM me so I can help you come up with a solution for your training. I need to know where you dog stands right now as far as training goes.