correction vs. avoidance???

[whithill]

OK. Another Dinah question. Background: she is now 19 months old. Got her from pound at 4 months. Great dog, sunny disposition. Here's the question. THere have several instances out on walks when Dinah has lunged and snapped at other dogs (one incident was fully described here, and involved a guy who rides his bike with his dog on the sidewalk and totally startled us). But several--maybe three--times, she has done this to other dogs who are just walking.

It seems pretty random, but I think the key is that these are dogs that kind of shrink away, or get on the other side of their owners or otherwise seem unfriendly. I think Dinah really responds to that as a bit of a bully.
To be on the safe side, (and because I am, as everyone in my family thinks, an over-worrier) I have had her checked out by several trainer/behaviorist people, plus dog-people I trust and don't think this any more than just teenaged bad manners. We are back in classes (her fourth course). She is generally great in class, but last week she did this snapping @#$*. I popped her leash (prong), yelled at her and put her in an instant downstay. The instructor used us as an example and said that that was normal dog nonsense and I had handled it the right way.

I have found that by being EXTREMELY vigilant, I can prevent this behavior by several means: when I see a dog approaching, I give her a gentle attention-getting pop, tell her to heel, greet the person and dog in an excited friendly voice and, sometimes, say to her (very seriously) Don't Even Think About It (or somethign like that). This really has worked, but I wonder if avoidance is the right tack. Here's my question (yes, I do have a question!). Should I just let her do what she is going to do and give her a SERIOUS CTJ correction instead? Avoidance works great as long as I am 100% aware of what is going on, but, you know, sometimes you are distracted!

Sorry so long. I would appreciate any advice. BTW she plays with dogs all the time, had many dog and human friends, of all shapes and sizes. She is Miss Popularity. Will this phase (minor as it is) just pass?

[Judi W]

Personally I am not a big fan of setting dogs up unless and until I am absolutely certain that they have the experience and knowlege as to what is expected. I would continue what you are doing, giving her the caution. If she does fire off like she did, I'd trash her a** with vigor. A couple of humiliating experiences like that and she is not real likely to repeat. I would do more than pop the leash, give verbals and a down. I'd likely have a hold of her cheeks or both sides of her collar and be in her face moving her backwards and trash talking her till her eyes were rolling around. Then rather than a down, which allows her to stare, I'd do boot camp heeling. You should see immediate contrition and you should forgive and get back to your regular work. It doesn't sound like she is stupid, but she may want to check out and see how much you mean it and if it was really because of her trash talking.

[whithill]

I was hoping you'd weigh in. It was that whole thread about the CTJ corrections (love that!...) that really bent my brain about this whole issue with Dinah. I realized that by always anticipating an "incident" I was depriving myself of a chance to really correct her in a way I never had before. (I'm pretty wussy, but NOT AS WUSSY AS I WAS BEFORE!)

Anyway I will continue with the warnings and such and be prepared to get seriously ferocious if need be. I have it in me.
FInal question: is crossing to the other side of the street in order to avoid contact with a questionable dog too much? That's silly, right?

Anyone else have experience with this kinda thing?

HAVE I MENTIONED THAT I LOVE THIS DOG?
(and this site has helped me to love her and train her and understand her so much better. I may not post a lot but I am here EVERY DAY. Thanks all.)

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally posted by Whit Hill
...........when I see a dog approaching, I give her a gentle attention-getting pop, tell her to heel, .........

You need to be cautious about this because if you are giving her the correction before she does go off on the dog (and maybe she isn't even going to go off) you may be teaching her that everytime she does see another dog she's going to get a correction and this is turning into a loose loose situation.

I have a girl that is a "room monitor" no matter where we go and tended to be agressive with other dogs. I came down on her but that wasn't working at all for us. I tried giving her a verbal scolding and move along in a different direction and she got much better about this. It still is a minor problem but the more I make of it, the worse it gets. I usually can see it coming and am able to control it.

[whithill]

I know, I wonder about this every time I do it... that my calling attention to an impending possible "issue" might be broadcasting all kinds of negative messages about other dogs. She is so sensitive to what I'm feeling/thinking.

there was another thread about this recently, someone who was unintentionally pulling their dog close when another dog approached and inadvertently communicating "danger". I don't want to do this. I think part of it is the whole Rott thing, when people see us coming THEY feel fearful and uncertain. Luckily, most of the people/dogs on our street know us.

[RottiMomCT]

I know we're going to see other dogs when out for a walk, and/or people I don't want interacting with my dog. I know he's going to see those things, and I let him...when he begins to fixate on them I let him know that I know what he's thinking, and tell him to 'Leave It' and we keep walking.

I don't stop to talk to the other people or let him greet the dogs, especially if I know he might have a problem with them or be rude or act like an idiot. If I am sitting down and people approach us, I talk to the people and let Ben get a feel for the other dog, and I ask people to not allow their dog to rush up to us (letting them know it is rude dog manners).

No corrections are given unless it's outright misbehavior and not acceptable...lunging, barking, snarling are unacceptable to me. Staring is tolerated, but only for a moment...he gets a verbal reminder to knock it off and we keep walking...he'll get a correction when I get to the end of the leash and he then catches up to me.

[Judi W]

There is no way I am going to go face on towards an unknown dog when it can be avoided. It is one thing in training class or at trials where I know the dogs and can assume they have some control, but I am not going to deliberately put my dog in a position of possible confrontation during a neighborhood walk.

It is too easy to avoid these things. If the other dog appears to be under control but is out at the end of its leash so that it could scurry in, I step to my left so I am between them and my dog and simply wait for them to pass. If the dog's lead is being held by both hands with an owner who looks nervous, you bet, I'm going to turn out into the roadway and give them some space until they get past. I tend to walk in the roadways anyhow, so I rarely find myself cornered on a sidewalk. Truthfully, I have found that it is the other handler that moves.

Yes, we run into loose dogs often and I've not had those encounters be a particular problem, but my dogs don't fire off either. They simply know better. If the loose dog comes all the way in for contact, I wait patiently until the sniffing greeting ritual is completed, then shoo the dog away and we go on our way. Quite truthfully, few dogs want to mix it up with a Rottweiler no matter how peaceful the Rottweiler appears. We had a dog-fighting SharPei in the hood and encountered him a couple of times. He was quite nasty, but I followed my same practice. After he'd sniffed a bit (I was controlling the heads of my two), he suddenly realized that he was perhaps out of his league, and remembered a very important engagement elsewhere. The other thing I've had happen a couple of times which made me embarrassed for the other dogs is to have them run in front of us and throw themselves on the ground! How humiliating!

Now, you are entirely correct in forbidding your dog to issue challenges. She is most likely quite brave while being restrained and I imagine if your lead broke she'd be shocked and glued to your side. (don't try this). I get furious at people whose dogs do that because the assumption seems to be that the other dogs are supposed to ignore it.

If you really really mean that this is to stop, you will let her know in a way that she can understand. I see nothing wrong with a warning/reminding collar pop and a verbal caution. It is entirely justified and she has earned it. Until she has proven over time to have mended her ways, you are actually being fair to her by letting her know in advance that you are not going to allow the misbehavior. She is neither fragile nor demented, just an opportunists.