Barking Problem aka "Bob Barker"

[rottnelmo]

My 3 year old Rott Elmo seems to have a barking issue. He rarely barks when we are home with him, but when we are gone it seems that he barks almost constantly. How do we know this, well our helpful neighbors have left us notes on our door that while we are gone he is barking his fool head off.

Short of putting a bark collar on him, I don’t know what to do. I have no problems using a bark shock collar under normal conditions, but Elmo is extremely soft and I am currently working on building up his confidence. My fear is that if I use a bark collar on him it will make him more neurotic and softer than he already is.

So, aside from lots and lots of toys, plenty of stuff to chew on, as well as music and lights left on….what else can I do?

The exercise has been a little less than what I would like for him normally, but that has just been lately, could his pent up energy be causing him to bark? I have no idea what he could be barking at. Maybe our neighbors coming and going is what he is barking at.

We live in a condo complex and we have two neighbors to our immediate right and then seven to our left. The two that are two our right, are in the L-shape and we start the leg of the L. So the only people that would be affected by the barking would be our two neighbors to the right and our immediate neighbors to the left. Not that it makes it right, but we don’t have a lot of traffic and the complex is dog friendly, as well as being fairly quiet.

[spidey]

I had the same problem, Rakki would bark his fool head off if left alone. I bought an Amtek Super Barker Breaker (it's a little box you put near the dog, and set the sensitivity level - when the dog barks, it emits a high pitched sound which interrupts the barking, and then it resets). There are many different products like this one. I wouldn't use a shock collar myself for this purpose, I'd either use a sound stimulus method like the one I have, or a citronella collar. I chose the Barker Breaker because it was the least expensive option I could find, and it's working really well so far (he usually barks once, hears the sound, and then just mutters to himself until he falls asleep). It also has a manual option, which I've been using to train "quiet".

And yes, the extra energy is certainly not helping him settle down in his crate, that's for sure.

[rottnelmo]

Originally posted by spidey
And yes, the extra energy is certainly not helping him settle down in his crate, that's for sure

Just to clarify...he is not in his crate, he has free roam of the house.

But how does the Barker Breaker work? Because how would the sound stop him from barking?

I have looked at the shock bark collars on eBay and they are fairly reasonably priced. I have used them on a previous dog and it worked well, but because of his softness I dont want to try it on Elmo.

I will look into the Barker Breaker system.

I have the "quiet" trained, but that only works when someone is there....or is there away to train him that no matter what, he has to remain quiet...but what if there are times I want him to bark or growl??? Like if someone is breaking in...then what? Same with the collars...

[spidey]

If he isn't confined in a specific area, you won't have much luck with anything but a collar (the citronella ones work really well with most dogs).

The Barker Breaker works because the sound is high pitched and loud enough (it sounds like a smoke alarm) to startle the dog out of barking, when the dog stops, the noise goes away. It's simple - they learn pretty quickly (as in after one or two tries with my dog, anyway) that barking makes the noise happen, and that not barking gives them peace and quiet. It's the same principle as using any other loud noise to interrupt a behaviour (as is commonly recommended when catching a dog in the act of having an accident in the house), in this case, the reward for stopping is that the annoying noise stops. It's exactly the same principle as a shock collar, only with sound instead of shocks.

[rotts and roses]

Hmmmm makes you wonder, if the thing sounds like a smoke alarm, would the neighbors call the fire department everytime it went off?:D What would be more annoying the barking or the beeping?At least you care enough to DO something about your
" Bob Barker" I have neighbors on both sides of me with outside dogs that bark at the wind! or the trees or anything and everything that moves. They never tell their dogs to shush.
I think in your case, since he only barks when you aren't around, a collar would be your best bet.Best of luck

[spidey]

What would be more annoying the barking or the beeping?

Heh. It beeps once, for a few seconds, then stops and resets. Since it only goes off once or twice before Rakki gives up, I suspect it's substantially less annoying than loud barking! This boy has some lungs on him! :)

[Muckdogs]

Why, may I ask, won't you use a bark collar?

[spidey]

Why, may I ask, won't you use a bark collar?

I'd use a spray collar, but not a shock collar. I don't have a problem with properly-used e-collars, they're just not part of my current training philosophy with this dog (which is why I was careful to say that I, myself, wouldn't use one).

[Muckdogs]

There should be no problems with the use fo a bark collar if used properly so that the dog will not generalize the correction.

[spidey]

There should be no problems with the use fo a bark collar if used properly so that the dog will not generalize the correction.

Sure, everyone needs to choose what's right for them and their dog. As I said, a bark collar just doesn't fit with my training plans as they currently stand. :)

[Teddyi]

I have a "Bob Barker" too, or I should say, "Bobbi Barker". Tasha barks neurotically and obsessively when we're not home. She is a rescue and has some "issues" so we are careful about the way her unwanted behaviors are handled. She's an extremely soft dog who has a history of past abuse so a shock collar was out of the question. I have taught her "no bark" and she understands and listens to that command when we're home, but when we're gone, she sometimes barks incessantly. She has also developed a game of barking at the horses in the pasture below us which doesn't make anyone very happy. The only way we have found to stop the unwanted barking is to use a citronella bark collar. It sprays a blast of citronella spray into the air in front of her nose when she barks. It startles her more than anything and she hates the smell. It has proven to be a very effective and rather gentle correction method for her. I think they sell the collars at Petsmart and Petco. Highly recommended. Hope this helps. :)

[Muckdogs]

Okay, I totally understand that everyone has their own training ideas. Likewise.

One question I have, though, is why do people seem to draw a nexus between "soft" dogs or dog with some history and the use of an ecollar or a bark collar. I guess I would like to find ut first, what people define as "soft" and why a "soft" dog should not be corrected in this manner.

It makes sense to me that if you are working a traditionally defined "soft" dog, you would tend to use less correction or the dog may shut down. But, it makes no real sense to me in the context of curing an annoying habit like incessant barking.

[Teddyi]

To me a "soft dog" is one who is sensitive and requires less intense/softer corrections. A soft dog (to me) is also one who doesn't rebound from hard corrections, tends to take all corrections personally and will shut down if handled too harshly.

My Tasha is a rescue and a very soft dog to begin with however abuse and neglect only made matters worse. She had been extremely abused and neglected as a puppy. When I adopted her at a year old, she had such aggression issues that I had considered the possiblity that I might have to put her to sleep. Thankfully, she came around with lots of training and careful handling.

I opted not to use a shock collar on her because I felt that, even on the mildest setting, the stimulation would cause her to regress emotionally. This is a dog who will accidentally hurt herself while playing (bump a leg, step on a rock) and immediately assume a submissive posture as if she believes the pain came from me. She submissive peed for months after I got her and still thinks "Charlie" is coming if you try to medicate an injury or introduce something new and scary like a dremmel tool. An e-collar might have worked on her, but not being experienced in the use of e-collars, I chose not to take a chance that I'd make a mistake and blow years of trust and training. It was safer and, I feel more humane, to use a painless alternative.

[rottnelmo]

Originally posted by Muckdogs
One question I have, though, is why do people seem to draw a nexus between "soft" dogs or dog with some history and the use of an ecollar or a bark collar. I guess I would like to find ut first, what people define as "soft" and why a "soft" dog should not be corrected in this manner.

It makes sense to me that if you are working a traditionally defined "soft" dog, you would tend to use less correction or the dog may shut down. But, it makes no real sense to me in the context of curing an annoying habit like incessant barking.

When Teddyi described Tasha it sounds like she is describing Elmo (aka Bob Barker). I, like Teddyi, have no problem with e-collars and have no problem with bark shock collars...however, I have used an e-collar properly on Elmo and it took me literally months to get him over his fear of ANY training hall or training situation. He would start to shut down the moment we stepped in a training situation...I had to re-train him and make everything positive.

Elmo is not a strong confident rottie...and while I have no problem using an e-collar on a confident dog...wouldnt I be doing him an injustice if I use a correction that I know is going to be determental to him?

What the thoughts on using e-bark collars on soft dogs?

[Muckdogs]

Well, I think that any correction, by definition, will be detrimental. I would question the prior use fo an ecollar as "proper" if the effects were as you described. It is just too inconsistent with proper usage, but that is for another thread.

If your problem is incessant yapping while you are away, to the detriment of your neighbors who have left notes for you. Obviously it is annoying. A yapping dog annoys the crap out of me, as well, and is not tolerated. I, however, have a different approach. My dogs are crated during the day and my adult is alowed in our room at night whilst our pup is crated. In my situation, I would make the bark collar the "all the time " collar and turn it on only when the dog is crated. This way, they will not generalize the correction to the bahaviour of barking. Only barking while in the crate. Any other way would be disasterous for our work. By turning the collar off when out, the dog will bark and not be corrected so it knows that barking is okay outside fo the crate, but not okay inside.

I still see absolutely no connection between this method and a soft or hard or sharp or whatever type of dog. It is an anonymous method of correction for improper behavior that occurs when you are not aroudn to otherwise correct.

The amount of times it takes, once a stimulation level is ascertained, for the corrections to register and the dog to make the association should be minimal, say about 5-7 days for the slow/average dogs. I can't see, at all, how this woudl affect the bond, relationship, trust, whatever.

It is a generic correction for improper behavior, period.