No focus , bored pup ?

[Silvermarten]

Hello everyone .
I hope someone can help me redirect my pups focus .
Henry just turned 8 mths old . He's neutered and small for a rottie .
We've been in school learning clicker training for several months now . He picks things up pretty quick but then I thought he was "forgetting" them . I've come to realise he's selectively not doing the command as he thinks it is boring . If I speed things up and dash around like a mad thing he is focused on me and follows commands very well .
It's more "fun" for him dashing around . He is a very high speed pup . Henry has not done anything slowly since he came to live with me . He has very brief food and toy focus so I don't have a "highly" motivating reward to keep his attention . When I say brief I mean that he finds it very intresting for about two minutes and then the rest of the world is more intresting . I cann't spend every minute of training dashing around (and haven't been doing this as I just found out about his focus change when speeded up ) .
So how do I get things slowed down to normal life speed and keep him focused ?
Thanks for any suggestions :D


Silvermarten

Henry 8 mth old hyper rottie pup
Bruce 10 yr old rescue rottie

[Judi W]

Just perhaps (perhaps mind you) it is time to teach him it is called "obedience" and not "if you feel like it". This does not need to be done in a manic fashion, but firmly, removing the rsponse is optional idea.

[Silvermarten]

You've hit the nail on the head Judi !
He's a "I'll do it if I feel like it " dog right now . Not a trained dog .

(quote) Just perhaps (perhaps mind you) it is time to teach him it is called "obedience" and not "if you feel like it". This does not need to be done in a manic fashion, but firmly, removing the rsponse is optional idea.(quote)
I was thinking about that , but don't know quite how to implement it with clicker training. Don't know if this makes sense or not . This is the first dog I've clicker trained and it seems like either I'm not doing something right (but the trainer says I am ) or he's figured out that not doing something is no big deal (there's no negative result) . I'm tending to think towards the latter .

I'm VERY open to suggestions regarding his training .
Is it time to switch methods ?

This is not my first dog , I've had rotties and an alpha dobie before . They responded very well to choke or pinch collars . The clicker training makes a lot of sense but I know something I must be doing (or not doing ) isn't working out for Henry .
Any comments are greatly appreciated :D
Thanks,
Silvermarten

[Judi W]

Well, it depends I guess on whether your instructor is a purest or not and also if they have any experience in dealing with strong bodied and strong minded dogs - and how much time you want to wait...............:) The thing with the Rottweiler is that while you are waiting around the dog is getting bigger, stronger and more independent.

My personal philosophy is that I teach with motivation. When I am quite confident the dog knows what it is that I want, I apply compulsion if necessary. Normally by the time we've gotten through the youngster stuff, it is not necessary as we have already established our working relationship. It is a partnership, but I make the decisions. I do use a lot of animation and unexpected fun, but that is a reward and accelerator, it is not the primary. I use food, but not always. The dogs have to learn to work for a delayed reward as I compete. They love the work and they love the feeling of success.

I don't use a clicker so quite honestly, I cannot comment on that. I have a toy or a treat and my "gooood dog" or "aren't you clever" voice. And yes, I am capable of saying "good" at the correct time. I need my hands for the lead if I am using one and for a praising pat or treat. I've got a dumbell hanging off my waist and gloves in my pocket and that is quite enough to be concerned with for me.

It is actually up to your own style to a large degree and your patience and the individual dog. Seems to me he is giving you a message and you simply have to read it.

[Beckysmom]

I tried clicker at first also as first time to that with the dog i am now training. I think clicker had its uses very early on with him, and may still have its uses for him perhaps on certain distance work training etc. But mine was bored with clicker and did not like it.

In addition to Judi's comments, I am wondering whether besides speed issue that you thought of, and the matter of not letting the dog think that commands are discretionary, whether there might not be just too much repetiveness for a bright dog going on with your dog with this method-- as seemed to be the case with mine. I don't know if that is typical of clicker trainers because I only had a brief experience with one. It was sort of like dog was thinking: "okay, I got it already. why do i have to do it 20 times in a row? let's move on to something new, " and he developed a dislike of certain things if they got repetitive which was not the hoped for goal. Mine loves to do training. But he hates it if it gets too repetitive, that bores him more than slowness does. Also what is in clicker supposed to be with dog figuring out what is wanted, for him seemingly is an annoying mindgame that he does not want to play.

I switched to a more traditional (mixed) methods type trainer.

[Silvermarten]

Thankyou for your comments :)
I too have been thinking that he is smarter than I first thought and is bored quickly . He is very active and investigates everything . He found the smallest gap in my friends fence who assured everyone her property was dog proof ( she has a dobie that's much smaller than Henry ) . Needless to say they've fixed it now.
I do realise that he has gotten away with too much . Which is why I came to this board , to get other opinions . Even though my clicker trainer instructer said I was doing everything right . Thankyou all for not making me feel stupid to have taken this long to realise what Henry was trying to tell me .

Well I've taken a step back in training . Kinda a back to basics routine . He's now always on leash except when crated . Everything is now earned , food , treats , toys , playtime and praise .
He's had a couple of leash corrections for refusing to do what he was told (that he knows) and happy praise plus petting (brief) when right . We're keeping things short and varied . Already there is a difference . He's calmer and watches me more . Some I'm sure is shock and wondering what's going on but hopefully too he's realising I am #1 in the pack .
Comments are always welcome . I'm very open minded and know there is more than one training method. :D

Thanks for the help .

Silvermarten
& Henry

[Judi W]

Phew, glad you asked.

I know that you knew what was going on, just wanted a bit of confirmation. Go train your dog, enjoy him and you will both have a lot more fun with some ground rules. (on top of that, you will like him better and that in turn makes his life much improved and a better future.)