E-collars

[SouthernRotts]

Does anyone here use one? It seems they are becoming popular and I would love to hear opinions from the members here on them. I have never used one and I doubt if I ever will. I can't say Im against them because I really don't know that much about them. I must say I don't like the sound of them but maybe I have the wrong picture in my head.

Some opinions on why they are needed and should regular owners be using them?

[Mick Trainer]

Like many things in the dog training world e-collars can be a very effective, gentle training tool if used by a knowledgeable handler who takes the time to understand the dog and work within it's limits and uses the collar to correct small mistakes being made in the advanced levels of the training process.

The largest problem that exists with the e-collars is miss use and use when the dog does not understand what the correction is for nor where it came from. In this case the dog can develop learned helplessness which can take a long time to get the dog back from.

the e-collar is not the problem but it is reliant on the person holding the remote too know what they are doing. You do not need to be an expert persae but have some idea what you are doing and when you will benefit from the collar and when you won't. They are not the mogic ownd they are often made out to be but can have fantastic results if you know what you are doing. There are certain exercises and behavioral problems that can benefit massivly and more than anything else by the use of an e-collar.

But I will also say that I can do like not agree with the use of such collars on young dogs and puppies nor in the early stages of the training process.

Mick.

[Judi W]

And I would add that unless you have successfully trained a dog using conventional (hands on) methods, please do not go to the e collar. It is important to be able to read the dog, to know whether the dog fully understands or is still learning what is expected.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Judi W
And I would add that unless you have successfully trained a dog using conventional (hands on) methods, please do not go to the e collar. It is important to be able to read the dog, to know whether the dog fully understands or is still learning what is expected.

Great point Judi!

Mick, question for you: What age do you think e-collars are OK?? what age do you begin giving leash corrections?

[Burnsway]

I do not have anything to say in the training aspect of the e collar but would like to thank you guys for going in dept about using one. I have never mentioned it, but a few times I have seen it suggested to new members on here a little too fast not knowing if that member has the knowledge to use one correctly. I have seen more then enough dogs in my reality life be damaged much worst then helped.

Also in many Texas areas, Houston included it is now seen as a leash. Another-wards if law enforcement approaches you and you have a E Collar in working condition on your dog you will not get ticketed for no leash. BIG MISTAKE I THINK!!!! I know e collar sales are sky rocketing in many petsmarts and management also quoted this was one of the reasons.

I can't find this law documented but did witness with my own eyes law enforcement stating this law in our complex when management called on a guy that kept refusing to leash his dog when going to the office to pay his rent. He was a trainer living on-grounds I had heard wonderful things on and was about to call him till I found out he uses E Collars only in his training......

[GenHannibal]

In regards to age, it goes back to making sure that the dog understands what it is being asked to do. So, since a puppy generally only does things out of habit and really does not understand the commands, an e-collar should not be used. Especially, if the operator has NO or LITTLE experience in using the e-collar! Having said that, age isn't always the issue, it is how well does that puppy/dog truly understand the command. A trainer needs to make sure, that they can determine correctly, whether the dog is blowing them off "just because" or it truly doesn't understand.

[GenHannibal]

Burnsaway

We had a similar situation here in Northern Virginia. A woman always walked her dog with an e-collar and had gotten ticketed for not having her dog on a leash. She went to court disputing the specifics of the "leash law" and the Judge basically stated that a leash is a "hard" line between her & the dog. She is now required to have a leash on her dog. E-collars don't always work when there is dog agression or high prey drive involved. Especially if you are not watching around you and can not put the dog into a command prior to the dog seeing the distraction.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by GenHannibal
E-collars don't always work when there is dog agression or high prey drive involved. Especially if you are not watching around you and can not put the dog into a command prior to the dog seeing the distraction.

Um, YES they do, if the dog is trained properly, handler understands how to use it, and the dog and handler are "fluent" in e-collar, it absolutely does work all the time.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Burnsway
...I had heard wonderful things on and was about to call him till I found out he uses E Collars only in his training......

So?? you should still call him and talk to him. A good trainer can do alot of great training with an e-collar. I am not saying you have to train with this guy, but you shouldn't let that one fact stop you from at least talking with him... Why is it that, this matters more to you than all the "great" things you had heard about him?

[GenHannibal]

You are right...if you put the dog into a command and you've worked with the dog correctly it will work. However, people like to just slap on the e-collar and start using it for dog agression! That will cause more issues. You are going on the basis that the dog has been "trained". I am saying that it doesn't work when it isn't done correctly.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by GenHannibal
I am saying that it doesn't work when it isn't done correctly.

Sure, nothing does! ;)

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by GenHannibal
You are right...if you put the dog into a command and you've worked with the dog correctly it will work.

This is the main misunderstanding, regarding how people attempt to correct problematic behaviors in dogs...

giving it a command to sit, down, etc is not the way to make a dog behave properly.. Teaching it how to behave properly is how to make it behave properly.. Does that make sense?

[Wookie'sMom]

Originally posted by Mattweiser
Um, YES they do, if the dog is trained properly, handler understands how to use it, and the dog and handler are "fluent" in e-collar, it absolutely does work all the time.

Yes, but people who walk their dogs with this seems kind of like using an invisible fence to me. If the dog wants something bad enough or is excited enough it will ignore the correction and then what are you going to do? ESPECIALLY if the dog is not properly trained in the first place so they don't know the proper behavior to respond to the correction. So allowing people to use e-collars as a leash for the purpose of leash laws doesn't sound like a good idea. Some people would be able to pull it off , but you would get all sorts of idiots who think "Great now I don't have to bother to leash train my dog. I can just slap an e-collar on and go for a walk."

[GenHannibal]

True enough. However, in the course of trying to keep a dog under control when there is, say, dog agression, the correction for breaking a command is better understood by the dog. Correcting it while it is in "high agression mode" will only make them highten their agression. The handler will then feel they need to go to a higher level on the collar, for some dogs that will only highten their adrenaline more. When correcting the break in command it is more clear to the dog and generally occurs prior to the build-up of adrenaline. Having had an extremely dog agressive bitch, putting her into a command prior to the distraction and working her thru it helped a lot. It distracted her from the issue at hand, was very clear to her that any show of agression during our obedience session was not allowed. Eventually, I was able to just say "leave it" and continue on our leisure walks. Taking her mind off of the distraction and redirecting it was the way to teach her how to behave when other dogs were around. On the training field she had never showed agression towards other dogs, because she understood that it was work. However, for a while there, when I would take her out for walks, she was a monster!

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by Mattweiser
So?? you should still call him and talk to him. A good trainer can do alot of great training with an e-collar. I am not saying you have to train with this guy, but you shouldn't let that one fact stop you from at least talking with him... Why is it that, this matters more to you than all the "great" things you had heard about him?

I believe in staying away from trainers that believe in one method only.

Also about 2 months after that, one of his Shepherds almost attacked a lady that walked by his car while his window was rolled down. Yes I heard some good things from a few people in the complex but that alone doesn't compare to a guy that swears by E collars only, Had the law called on him just because he didn't want to use a leash and owns a dog that almost attacked someone.

Started sounding like one of those macho trainers to me. Just didn't sound like someone I wanted to use.