How to exit front door nicely?

[JeanT]

While I wait for formal training lessons, I would appreciate advice on how to teach Cody to exit the front door nicely and beging a walk without "charging". I think a nice exit will carry over into the "charging". If not, I'll address that separately. the exiting is most important because right now it is inevitable that one of these times I'll be pulled off the steps or Cody will get loose.

Cody is a 1+ rescue with a very nice temperment, suvivorable manners otherwise until formal training begins. I have only used a flat collar so far because he had pnuemonia and a transtracheal washing, so I worried about pressure on his neck. I do not think I need be concerned about that anymore, so for walks I'll try a choker chain (is that the same as a "slip collar"? )

Anyway, I have the front door and a storm door. Cody sits to have the leash put on and the front door opened and then storm opened. 90% of the time now I can get out both doors before he charges through. I know that has got to be 100%. There are two steps to go down. I have to step back inside to get the door to close it. I've started wrapping the leash around my waist so he is stopped short on the charge, and I make him sit while I go back for the door.

The exit is in hallway foyer so there are interior walls on both sides of the doorway. On the outside the doorway is recessed from the exterior walls at the top of the first step back to the doorway (about 40"). It is like a small alcove to protect against rain, etc at the doorway itself. I don't know if you can visualize this, but it means that Cody and I cannot both be on the "first step" area at the same time that the storm is open. So he cannot come out the door and wait beside it, he has to be down on the second step area (which is a large space, not just another step). It is also while I must go "back in" the 40" plus the size of the door to reach the knob to close it.

I need Cody to WALK out the doorway and wait on the second step area. Maybe there are two separate problems, because even though I get him to sit (because the leash is wrapped around my waist), he then charges down the driveway at the beginning of the walk (about 100') becauae I've had to loosen the leash to go back in. The degree of pulling on the rest of the walk needs correction, but it is not very bad at all. The dangerous part that I would like to address first is getting out the doorway. (He is very good about waiting at interior doorways.)

Any help would be appreciated.

[Judi W]

This will come.

In the meantime - how about putting a really sturdy hook right beside the door (outside) . The kind that is used to hang heavy things from in a garage.

Open the door, hang the handle over the hook so he gets his own correction. It will give him enough lead to go down a step from you and won't pull over when your back is turned attempting to pull the door closed behind you.

After a couple of times you will find him stopping himself at the limit of the lead. Smile and tell him what a good boy he is. Use calm voice and movements transitioning from that to lead in hand walking. It will help him learn to settle a bit during this oh so exciting "we're going for a walk" time.

[Beckysmom]

And some more ideas in addition to above ones:

the Beyond Obedience book, and also Good Owners Great Dogs, books I mentioned give help in proper use of choke chain collar. There is a right direction to put it on so it slides open again after a correction. And the correction is supposed to be a quick pop and release, not pulling. The first of those books is good on explaining how to get a good nice walk on leash without pulling--in one session (not a formal heel which would take more work, but a nice everyday walk with your dog). And also on how to practice first using a fellow human before trying it on dog.

I also have a difficult doorway. I found that teaching Bodhi a wait, okay, wait, okay. (using leash corrections and refusal to get on with our walk until he cooperated) sequence helped. He "waits" before door opens, I say "okay", he goes through. I say "wait" as I get through and get the door shut, then "okay" as he heads for a flight of stairs, then "wait" as he reaches the stairs ahead of me, then "okay" as he goes down just ahead--with the addition of "sloooowly" as he goes down stairs because I need him to go at my pace not his. He thinks I move "at the pace of death" as someone or other put it. And after that we have room to be side by side. [NB: I wish I had used a "release" word other than "okay" --something that I don't say often in normal conversation. ("okay" for him is supposed to mean a semi-release, not free to charge off. A fully free to go play I say "all free" in a high pitched playful voice.] We are now practicing the "wait" "okay" drill at the end of the driveway and at all gates to the outside world.

On driveway, once you have a proper use of leash and training collar in place so you are not pulling (and there is a chance he won't respond to chain collar and need prong, but he sounds pretty sensitive so chain will probably do it), if you still get pull problem after above, you can respond by heading in opposite direction (back to house) or stopping any time he pulls. Message is that pulling does not get him where he wants to go.

I want to reiterate Judi's point about smiling, and telling him what a good boy he is. (praise, petting rewards] Whenever he does what you want him to do, especially when it is a new behaviour for him. catch him doing something right and let him know what a great job he is doing and how happy you are. In the comments I made that tended to be negative on the "positive reinforcement" type trainers, it does not mean that I (and I think I can safely say we here) believe in dishing out lots of corrections and no rewards or praise. One tries to set up situations for the dog's learning such that the corrections will be few and the positive reinforcements many.

My dissatisfaction with that school of "positive" trainers (yours was hardly positive!) is that they are rigid and unbending and not as humane as they seem to think they are. And it is Bodhi's "traditional" oriented trainer who is actually able to make adjustments to his approach as needed for the particular dog, and dog handler combo (for example, that I am the size I am in relation to the dog, in itself makes us a totally different situation than the same dog with a much larger handler.)

[cpalenchar]

I do not have nearly the experience of judy but this is what worked for me:

charging on walks: my dog and I started in the house, two rooms from the door. I attached her leash, dropped it, and started walking towards the door. As soon as I would do this-- she would charge off. (bad habit that I had let her develop). Since I wasn't holding the leash--- she'd be off and running. Trick was-- as soon as her front shoulder passed my leg, I would turn around and walk the other direction. She would end up at the door going "huh where's mom". First few times I think I just waited for her to come back to me. Then I would start walking as soon as she was "in position". The moment her front shoulder was in front of my leg--- I would turn around and walk the other direction. I tried as much as possible *not* to call her back into position. Mostly I did this as a silent excercise. The idea being she was learning that a leash on and me walking was what meant she had to stay at my side--- no dependence on leash pressure, no dependence on commands to get her back in position. Oops, I did leave out one part, I would give my casual walk command, "let's go"-- each time we started walking. So she did have one command, as well as the physical situation to follow. We got to the door after about 30 min. But-- it's been fairly solid since. I *did* have to use the same method once we were out the door. But then just holding the leash and stopping until she got back in position. First time I might have been standing in the middle of the sidewalk for 10-15 min. But, again, it's been relatively solid. [took about a week of work to get her on track. The amount of time I'd have to stand still generally getting shorter each time]

charging through the door: I have been using the "sit means sit until I say otherwise" "down means down until I say otherwise" etc school of thought. So--- I worked her in the living room on doing a sit until given the release command. ("free" in my case) And we do the same thing at the door. I walk up, have her sit far enough back that I can get the door open, and then open the door, walk through, then give her a free, and then close the door. She also has to sit at the top of the 3 steps to my porch while I walk down before I give a release command. A solid sit/stay has really been valuable for me controlling my dog. It took maybe a week of work to get it "good enough for a pet dog"..... I also practice sit/stays on our walks. [by the way-- I taught sit means sit until I say otherwise by getting her to sit. Then waiting and giving her the release command. Only praising when she waited until the release. She get's a fairly strong "uh-uh" when she breaks a position--- that seems good enough for her as I think she is fairly soft--- if I catch her as she's raising herself up, she will usually get back right back in position, and seemed to make the connection that moving was the problem.....]

[JeanT]

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

I decided to try a combo of Judi's "hook at the door" and Beckysmom's "wait, OK". I have him sit, wait, I walk through, hook the leash, and then "OK" and then "wait" again while I reach in and come back to him. (I've been very goood about not using "OK" except in this situation. It just seems to pop out of my mouth and fit this particular situation naturally.)

I LOVE the hook, except that the second time he bolted, it pulled part way out and actually bent the shaft AND the leash broke (a weak spot where he'd chewed it) BUT he stopped and waited for me and received much praise. I think I may try a 1/2" diameter hook. Even though we've only gone through this drill a few times (cross fingers and eyes and knock on wood) it seems to have "taken" ! I'd like to put a sturdier hook in though as a bit of insurance. I can also see it being a useful kind of hitching post when I'be got my arms full of "stuff" that I have to juggle to open the doors going either in or out.

Soon I think I'll have some volunteers drive up the driveway as we are exiting the house to see how he responds, and maybe have someone run across the driveway quacking and flapping just to have him practice his mannerly exit.

Still waiting for the amazon books, Becky'smom.

Thanks, this is fun work!

[Beckysmom]

Thank you for posting an update, I was wondering how he (and you) were doing.

Sounds like he is doing wonderfully, and like you are going to find the new category first of a youngster dog who needs training etc. just as wonderful in its way as the older ones were in theirs! :D

Training actually is a lot of fun! Let me know what you think of my book prescription when they come. :)

Oh, and, there are things called snapbacks (there is a website along the lines of www.snapback. ? or some such where you can buy them) which are like bungee cords, but with hook attachments...meant to go between collar and leash, but you might find that if you put that between the hook and the tie to the hook it will absorb enough shock to help keep the hooks from breaking. tho thicker hook for sure sounds good. I never put my guy on a tie without one in place to absorb some shock. Sorry I didn't think to add that idea before. Then again maybe it is just as well the leash broke while by home and not while crossing a busy street.

Mine has broken several collars, lost id tags and bells ... bit through two leashes before we got that under control. It gets better, don't worry.

PSmy snapback has tag with (888) 933-2545 on it. guess that''''''''''''''''s an order number. those extra ''''''''''were from bodhi knokink my arm guess it is his way of sending a hello to Cody.

Maybe Judi or someone will notice this and comment on it, but if he is charging hard enough to break his leash (even if part chewed), and bend hook like that, I think a prong collar might both give you more control and also be safer actually on his neck (trachea) than a choke chain collar.

[Finally, a note to myself, never again comment to anyone that "it gets better" one's own dog is guaranteed to act up and make you wonder if that is true. ;) ]

[Beckysmom]

clarifications:

1) there are two types of snapback, in case you decide you need xtra shock absorption I think the type meant to use in a car as a seat belt type restraint will work better for you than the regular one intended for between leash and collar--that is the source, but maybe it has a slightly different name, so If you decide to try, ask for car restraint type (reason is it has more clips and such that will allow you to find a way to connect it to leash and hook more easily than the regular type)

2) on the prong idea, I think a prong mayalso be safer than a regular flat buckle collar for the amount of pulling you are describing.

[JeanT]

Will check out the snapback. We've been using a choker collar for walks. The pulling, which wasn't too bad anyway (fingers crossed) is almost non-existent. Including the charge down the driveway. It is a pleasure to walk without pulling. I think I've figured out one occasion for taking the leash in his mouth and really adamantly fighting for it later in the walk, not before. I've told him to sit after a short and non-productive tussle (didn't want to "fight" for fear of it breaking or such while we were out), and he sat and and sort of collapsed and dropped it. I waited and he lay there for a while. this happened on two walks. On this last walk, as soon as he took it in his mouth, I had him sit and then down, and he dropped it right away. And lay there for a while. I think he's tired and telling me he wants a rest! (His endurance is still not great.) When we start again, there's no leash grabbing for the rest of the walk.

this interpretation could be my inexperience. I will "rest" him earlier, maybe once or twice, in the walks and see if the leash grab is avoided.

[Beckysmom]

Resting idea seems good to me. That he lies down the way you describe does sound like he is tired. Have you ever had pneumonia? I don't know if dogs react in same way at all, but I did have it once and I felt exhausted very easily even once "better" for quite a while.

You might also want to make sure that collar is loosening properly around his neck--I suppose it is conceivable that he could grab it to not have pull on his neck where the tube was. If you are trying to give a correction some dogs will do that, and then it stops your ability to correct--which means dog is in charge. But if there were a tightness even when you weren't trying to correct him, then maybe he would try to get some slack for himself by grabbing.

And it may likely be that he is still just being mouthy with the leash.