Stay vs wait

[LynnS]

Maybe I am strange but I never understood why you need 2 commands to tell the dog to keep put until I tell you different. We use one word and that means stay until I tell you otherwise whether it be a recall or I walk back to you and release you. Bella doesnt anticipate that even when I am returning to her that I will release her. Sometimes I walk around her, head back out and then recall.

Ideally there would be no wait or stay command - sit means sit until I tell you otherwise...we are guilty of not teaching her this way...

[Judi W]

I do not use two different words. In ScH "stay" is not used at all, however, AKC allows it, it helps when there might be a distraction so the dog doesn't accidentally start to move/heel with you. If it is legal and helps - use it. However, I see no benefit to the "wait" instead of the "stay" whether it be short term or long term.

FYI. There are a LOT more distractions at an AKC trial than during the obedience portion of a ScH trial. A lot going on just feet away from where you dog might be working - dumbells flying, commands and instructions being called, squeek toys for photos, loud speakers, people and dogs right next to the ring - and no second commands allowed except during heeling or you will not qualify. In ScH you can give an "over" or "hupt" and then add a "bring" as the dog approaches the dumbell. The dog can even go around the jump and still squeek through. None of this is true in an AKC trial. So, if it is allowed, and helps - use it.

[alexav]

I teach my dogs that "Wait" means stay put and wait for the next command.

"Stay" on the other hand means to freeze in that position until I return and release you or the earth will open up and swallow you!

[LynnS]

Got it

Alexav as I see it, whatever the word is it, should mean stay put until tell you otherwise....it's prob a matter of choice...?

Judi W

Thank you for making the distinction between SCH and AKC. My breeder, who only shows in the german ring, was advocating the no command at all approach but having been to both trials, I agree that there is a huge difference in the distraction level.

When do you start making offers to the gods in return for a good performance? :D

[Judi W]

You look at the knees of the pants the handler is wearing. If there are grass stains, you know it is from dropping to their knees and praying (not to be confused with "preying")......

[Carina43]

I've seen it done both ways...I do what AlexaV does. "Wait" means "stop right there and wait until I call or release you." I use "wait" when we're practicing recalls, or to tell him he can't get out of the truck or go through a door without my OK.

"Stay" means "stay in position until I return to your side and release you."

So far, only Cooper knows the difference, it's really two different commands for him.

[MontanaRott]

Originally posted by alexav
I teach my dogs that "Wait" means stay put and wait for the next command.

"Stay" on the other hand means to freeze in that position until I return and release you or the earth will open up and swallow you!

Lynn you are a mind reader, this was going to be my next question. And alexav, how you do it is how we use it. Wait we use the most when it comes to any door and in the car. He must also "wait" when we put down his food dish.

[alexav]

I can tell my dogs know the difference. If it is a wait, they are rippling with anticipation and very intense. If it is a stay, they still keep their eye on me but their body is more relaxed.

I certainly would rather they relax while on their 5 minute stays than be all tense and I'd rather not have to wake them up for a fast recall.

I think it's totally a matter of choice to seperate the two. It works well for me and my dogs but may be confusing for another. I mean, GL, there's enough commands to teach, correct, and proof!;)

[LynnS]

I do see your point Christy....

[Judi W]

Well, to me it is position and place, dog is to maintain the position (sit or down) and to remain in the place where it is left until informed otherwise. If wait simply implies not to go through the door, that does not usually imply "position"

Most dogs quickly figure out that their handler standing by him/herself across the ring with hands to the sides if precusor to a recall. Being in a line with a bunch of other dogs is almost always going to be a stay until handler returns. I also fold my arms across my chest on the novice stays whether for the stand or group work. That is another subtle second command that is legal. Arms must be at the sides during a recall.

[LynnS]

Our instructor taught us the same trick (arms folded) for group stays and downs...

What we are doing is working but it's interesting to see why people do what they do...

BTW observing the dogs the first few times they are in a group sit or down (my class) was one of the funnier things i have ever seen! It was like watching dominoes fall....

[MontanaRott]

Originally posted by Judi W
Well, to me it is position and place, dog is to maintain the position (sit or down) and to remain in the place where it is left until informed otherwise. If wait simply implies not to go through the door, that does not usually imply "position"

Most dogs quickly figure out that their handler standing by him/herself across the ring with hands to the sides if precusor to a recall. Being in a line with a bunch of other dogs is almost always going to be a stay until handler returns. I also fold my arms across my chest on the novice stays whether for the stand or group work. That is another subtle second command that is legal. Arms must be at the sides during a recall.

So I would imagine the dog would learn to anticipate the arms dropping, so is timing the key here arms coming down you had better be ready to say COME?

[LynnS]

Shirley

In the group sits and downs you go return to your dog, walk around the dog so dog is in heel position and then release your dog when the judge tells you to. It's the Stay vs Wait...All very confusing! At least it is to me!

[lblax]

Originally posted by Judi W
I do not use two different words. In ScH "stay" is not used at all, however, AKC allows it, it helps when there might be a distraction so the dog doesn't accidentally start to move/heel with you. If it is legal and helps - use it. However, I see no benefit to the "wait" instead of the "stay" whether it be short term or long term.

FYI. There are a LOT more distractions at an AKC trial than during the obedience portion of a ScH trial. A lot going on just feet away from where you dog might be working - dumbells flying, commands and instructions being called, squeek toys for photos, loud speakers, people and dogs right next to the ring - and no second commands allowed except during heeling or you will not qualify. In ScH you can give an "over" or "hupt" and then add a "bring" as the dog approaches the dumbell. The dog can even go around the jump and still squeek through. None of this is true in an AKC trial. So, if it is allowed, and helps - use it.

in schutzhund actually the stay (pronounced that way) command is used for the stand in motion. imo a dog should just be taught that a down or a sit is that until recalled or released

[alexav]

On group stays you wouldn't ever call your dog so the dropping of your arms better not be a signal.

Lynn:
The stand for exam is a stay.

Set up for a recall? WAIT

Before throwing the dumbell in open? WAIT

Setting up before the broad jump? WAIT

Am I leaving anything out?:)