Working on recall

[MontanaRott]

Guerin got in a mode where he thinks he is a funny boy and does not need to come. This happened in our fenced yard. So what we have been doing is walking toward him ,with a bad dog face on, saying you are not doing as you should, you bad boy. We continue toward him until the oh i am so cute look leaves his face. Then pen him in, and have him come, which he does, and soothe him for a minute or two, with good boy, what a good boy and lots of stroking. Then we will take 2 steps back and say come, if he does we soothe, if not, we take his collar and make him, and soothe, take 2 steps back........repeat repeat. This has only been going on for a day, but we want to know if there is something else we should be doing.Long lead correction?

[Judi W]

Humm, might be guaranteed to give you a slow recall! He is too young to expect a proofed recall, best you concentrate on building motivation associated with that word instead of punishment, bad dog, and isolation. I know I wouldn't come running to someone who glared at me like that - in fact I'd be hauling ass out of there. I know you are only doing the glaring thing when he doesn't respond well, but like I said, he is not at that point in training and that whole thing is not what you want associated with the come command. Your best second command on a recall is a big smile.

At various times of the day, even around the house, do a "come" in a HAPPY voice and have a piece of cheese or something wonderful as well as a bunch of praise. Nothing formal when he gets there. No sit in front, nothing but happy, glad to see you action.

Have someone hold the dog, restraining him, then run and hide and call him. Lots of praise when he gets to you. Take turns. Outside - same thing increasing the distance and where he can see you. Unless you have intimidated him half to death, he should come running like crazy. If he seems lost, turn and run away while calling him.

[MontanaRott]

Thanks Judi, I think my asking you early on prevented intimidating him to death! I have been doing what you said today, as a matter of fact. I just call him in a happy voice and get down with my arms open and LOTS of praise! Treats and hugs, SURPRISE its working! Even when he has something in his mouth he does not want to give up, which is where we ran into the initial problem.
Taking turns holding him and calling him is a great idea. We will do that this evening. I had thought about the glaring this morning and had the thought you expressed, damn I would not come to me either! Thanks AGAIN, for sound advice! Next time we encounter something new I will post here and ask BEFORE we start to try and correct it! See you can teach old dogs new tricks!;)

[LynnS]

Judy explained this perfectly of course

Just to emphasize that building up to a reliable recall takes a long time. It's important not to correct Guerin for things he doesnt COMPLETELY understand which includes proofing. And even when proofing a slight pop on a long lead may be enough to remind him what he is supposed to be doing.

One thing that always works with Bella is running away from her instead of towards her. This actually could have saved her life when the lead I was using broke (long story but leashes are always inspected regularly now) and she started walking away from me towards a buisy street - thank god I had the prescence of mind to call her and start back peddling...

[MontanaRott]

Yes indeed it will be a long time before it is reliable! The snag we hit was if he had something he did not want to give up. We are now working very hard to let him understand coming to us means safety and fun. He came in a while ago with a wad of grass, high value to him, mess to me. I got down on the floor opened my arms and said Guerin come! Oh good boy you are such a sweet boy come Guerin. He stood and looked for a few seconds, checked out the location of the dog door, twitched in that direction, the whole time I am saying oh good boy oh sweet boy! And he CAME! Told him to sit he did, said out, and the grass clod was mine! PRAISED PRAISED and gave him a treat!

[LynnS]

Awesome!

We also taught Bell an out command (which means drop whatever is in your mouth) and a leave it command when she starts to show interest in something about to end up in her mouth LOL. Not to go totally off topic but we also have taken Judi W's advise and carry a dowl with us walks so can carry it and have a "job" - she loves it !!! And it keeps her from picking up everything in her path (in the city you can imagine all the gross things that dogs find irresistable)...

[MontanaRott]

We are teaching leave it also. And really working the watch me command. We keep getting told when his hormones kick in watch me will be invaulable. Carrying a dowel is a great idea, he picks up sticks and pinecones when we are walking and if he ALREADY had something to carry, well it would be so much nicer! And we would not have to say leave it 500 times!

[alexav]

Please, Please, PLEASE...
Do NOT use the word "COME" when you are taking something away from him!

The word should NEVER have anything negative attached to it in the dogs mind.

Stop and think. Is what I have to offer a whole bunch better than what he's doing now? ex. He's outside, you want him Inside but he's having fun sniffing the puggers. Don't use "Come". Go get him by giving him a tasty and grabbing his collar. You shouldn't use the word without some type of lead on him either, IMO...

Thank GOD Judi set you straight! I would have kicked your butt all the way back to Montana if I saw you do that! LOL;) (Well, I would have to restrain myself...:D)

You want to instill a feeling of sheer joy and urgency in your dog. Don't ever teach him that sometimes "Come" means trouble or a toenail trim, or anything that he might percieve as the teensiest bit negative.
If you lay the foundation right, (Remember THAT lecture? ) when they hear the word "Come", they should react the same way you might if your hubby called to you and said that he saw Ed McMahon and the Prize Patrol van pull up in front of your house!

So, in conclusion...
"Come" should always be a good thing.
"Come" is not optional.
"Come" should never be something to avoid.

BTW, if your overachieving obedience instructor has you doing a recall from a stay, STOP IT NOW!

[LynnS]

As an aside - somehere early on we screwed up the *Come* command and now we use *Here* - And here means a formal recall, sit included (it didnt at first of course).

[MontanaRott]

Ok just so I don't get beat up, we only use the word come alone if it is in a situation where we can enforce it. When I want him to follow or stop running away with something he needs to give up it is, hey come on, Guerin puppy puppy, lets go or some variation. And you BET Judi set us straight. From now on we are only a place of safety and fun to "come" to! Besides I do not want to get beat up the first time we come face to face! THAT would not be FUN!:p
And yes the lecture is FIRMLY embedded in our brains. AND HAND RAISED TO GOD I WILL NEVER EVER EVER do anything to "fix" a new problem without ASKING first! :D

I have to say you have set us straight a few times too! We are learning and so is Guerin. :)

[MontanaRott]

BTW, if your overachieving obedience instructor has you doing a recall from a stay, STOP IT NOW! [/b][/quote]

Oh? Tell me more...............I am thinking we need to find another instructor. Dang I don't want to move to Utah!

[MontanaRott]

Originally posted by LynnS
As an aside - somehere early on we screwed up the *Come* command and now we use *Here* - And here means a formal recall, sit included (it didnt at first of course).

Looks like I need to remember here is a good word to use!

[Judi W]

Puppy and continuing through beginners and sometimes advanced beginners I restrain the dog and have the students call after running out the distance. The dogs do not know stay well enough to hold it one time, and know to come the next and they end up terribly confused. They need to concentrate on one thing at a time. Trying hard, they come, and then are corrected for coming before called. Trying harder the next time, they hold the stay, and are in trouble for not coming. Poor little guys.

Relax, take your time. Yes, I do use the word come with the restraint and running thing. That is how I build drive for the fast recall and develop a conditioned response to the word. Trust me, if someone is holding your dog back and you are running away, they're going to blast towards you.

Dogs carrying things is a great thing for them to do. Instead of seeing it as a nasty habit, admire what they have, tell them how clever they are. You can thank them for bringing it to you, trade for a treat, admire and return it...... whatever. Sure beats fighting over stuff. Then when it is time for the dumbell, you already have a relationship with the dog for fetching

[alexav]

Originally posted by alexav
BTW, if your overachieving obedience instructor has you doing a recall from a stay, STOP IT NOW!

Originally posted by montanarott
Oh? Tell me more...............I am thinking we need to find another instructor. Dang I don't want to move to Utah!

Shirley!:( Do you really think I'd beat you up? :(

OK, we won't debate on whether or not a 4 month old pup is even ready to learn "stay"...

When a dog is learning to stay. He needs to concentrate on STAYING, not waiting and anticipating until he is called.

When a dog is learning to be happy and excited about the come command and you are correcting him from anticipating it and breaking his stay, you are putting WAY too much stress on him and at the same time leaving doubts in his mind as to if he should come to you or not.

So, he's being confused about stay and come all in one practice session.

Far from the ideal situation, I'd say.

[MontanaRott]

Ok Judi I get that. Staying and come and how he could get confused. As far as carrying things goes, should we take a dowel or just let him carry sticks he finds on the path we walk? We have him chase and bring a tennis ball along with other toys and fetch is a game he really does enjoy. As do we.