Getting the front end down first

[Miabella]

Does anyone have suggestions for fixing the down from a stand so the front end drops first?

This is one of those things that I will teach correctly the first time around with my next dog so I won't have to go back and fix my mistakes later!

[Judi W]

If you will avoid imprinting the down from a sit, you should be fine. Using a lure helps, bit I have found most people initiate the down from a sitting position and then they're stuck with it.

I teach "puppy push-ups" when really little which is dropping from a stand, no staying, just a game and now both of the ones I started that way drop front first. Of course they still drop from their sits, but their moving downs and standing downs are front first.

[DNeff]

We call it a fold back drop since they fold themselves back in to the down. I teach it from the stand by simply holding a cookie in my hand, putting my hand( w/ the cookie) to their nose, lowering my hand down between their legs and back (towards their belly) as I say down. When they actually get in to the down position I let them have the cookie. Usually this does the trick every time.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC NA NAJ TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[spoteet]

I wish I could offer some help. I taught Sajan the down from the sit but for some reason when he does a moving down or down from a stand, he does the fold back down:D Sometimes I think he actually just drops straight down, he does it so quickly.

Good luck!

[Miabella]

Yup, I'd say learning "down" from "sit" was definitely the culprit! I'll give the luring a try tonight. :)

[Wrath]

I never realized there was a correct way to get into a down. We trained Jaxom to get into a down from a sit as well.

[DNeff]

If you plan on advancing to competition (ie CDX or agility) it is almost a must. The down from a sit is too slow in many cases and certainly not the desired way.

For anyone not competing, it isn't really as critical.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC NA NAJ TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Miabella]

I just wanted to let you know that the luring between her front legs is working nicely. However, when she lays down on her own (not on command), her butt still hits the floor first. With ongoing reinforcement of the front first down, will that become her default? She used to do a rock-back sit, and I've been able to successfully change that to a scoot sit. I hope this will be the same! :)

Thanks again for all the help.

[spidey]

With ongoing reinforcement of the front first down, will that become her default?

I'd guess that with practice, she'll get better. Trying to unlearn something your body has learned how to do one way is tricky, and takes practice (a good example of this is chronic typos, your finger muscles perform the wrong sequence of key-presses out of habit). This is called "muscle memory", which doesn't mean that your muscles have brains, just that they learn to perfom certain actions in a certain way (pianists use muscle memory to a very high degree), and undoing that "memory" is trickier than learning something for the first time. You just need to help her muscles relearn the new way, IMO, patience! Good luck.

[moondog]

I have a question! :) When trying to reteach something as tricky as this, would it help to use a completely different command to avoid confusing the dog?

[Miabella]

Interesting idea, moondog! Comments from the experts?? :)

[DNeff]

Originally posted by moondog
I have a question! :) When trying to reteach something as tricky as this, would it help to use a completely different command to avoid confusing the dog?

I wouldn't use a new word, unless the dog was really really struggling with the new version of down. Then I might. For the most part dogs are pretty quick and will catch on in no time that down now means drop from a stand.

With enough reinforcement history your new down can become her default behavior, but we are talking in the realm of 1000 reps or so.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC NA NAJ TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[BostonRott]

Actually, that's exactly what I was just going to suggest. The new word will have different criteria (front down first) than the original "Down." This is why I use English and German with my dogs. German for competition. Down is lax, platz means do NOT get up until I release you. :)