Be Quiet already!

[LynnS]

This is really annoying

Often times when we are training, Bella talks back while completing an excercise. When she was 16 weeks old I chalked it up to puppy stuff but at 10 mnths she still does this. It's not constant but it's still an issue. Sometimes it's as subtle as slight huff when she sits but at other times its this constant mumble -

Sometimes she approaches training with a ton of enthusiasm and other times I get this sassy talk (at least thats what I interpet the talking to be).

I keep training sessions very short (10 minutes max), VERY upbeat and really vary things - Is she just being a brat?

[DNeff]

Is she talking when she doesn't want to complete the exercise? When she's confused? Frustrated? Tired? Or does she just like to do a running commentary while she is working? Does she ever do it when she is excited and jazzed?

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC NA NAJ TT CGC
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[LynnS]

Dawn I asked her but she wouldn't tell me! :D

It definately is not excitement - it sounds like frustration to me -

[possibly she is pissed because I am giving her treats randomly instead of for each excercise]

When she is really jazzed and focused she doesn't talk

I am going to try something and the next time she starts talking I will grab a ball or tug and play with her a bit and then go back to training - I keep forgetting to mix play with training and this might help...

[Judi W]

Be careful about what you are rewarding. If her talking gets her out of work and into a play situation - you are likely to get more of it not less. Remember, - reward = more of the behavior

If you are going to use the play reward, it should be done for good work without complaining or editorializing.

[LynnS]

Good point Judy

What would you do in this situation?

[DNeff]

How many reps do you usually do of a given exercise? You said she is on a variable reward ratio, should she be for those exercises? I'm not sure that's why I'm asking.

10 months is still pretty mentally immature. Are you asking too much since she is a smart bright girl?

Play should be a constant part of your training. Don't wait for her to get bored to bring on the fun. Especially with a young rottie.

If I was doing 10 minutes of training I might do 3 minutes of play during that session. Play and training should be always be mixed together continually throughout a session.

I curious if she is slow to respond to your cues when she is "talking".

If I was you when she started talking I would say "too bad, no cookie for you." and end the exercise. I might also turn away and ignore her when she does it. As soon as you break off the exercise, set her up again and restart it.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC NA NAJ TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Mojave's Mom]

Lynn, I'm certainly not as smart as Judi but what I would do would be correct her for the back talk. I know you're using positive reinforcement only but her brain is kicking into her body and she's old enough to withstand a little correction ;)

And I agree about not using the play to get her to shut up. It's what Glenn was doing with Diablo (per the agility instructor's advice) when I first met him but I quickly saw that Diablo was then working GLENN whenever he wanted attention! So we got to the point where we're at now where he can't just be quiet when he needs to be because he learned in the past if he screamed enough, someone would come entertain him A LOT of work is going into that boy to turn this around and it's not easy....

Work is work, she has no say about it. Give her a small pop with a stern vocal "EHH EHH!" and move on until you get what you want. At this point she might be so shocked that you corrected her that it might just be enough to end it forever...if you're lucky :p

Just my thoughts on the matter :)

[LynnS]

Dawn:

I try and keep reps low - and usually I mix things up - These are all excercises that she *knows* (she has been doing them for a few months) - things she is still learning are still are not a variable reinforcement schedule yet.

She is definately slower to respond while in this grumbly talking mood.

I hope I am not asking too much of her. When we are in the learning phase, if I am moving to fast (metaphorically speaking) I just back off and we approach it differently or come back to it later. She just learns so fast! (Especially using a target stick)

I really haven't even asked her to do much with distraction yet - maybe a few minutes at a show or in the park

Sandy:

You know what my response is going to be LOL

[Judi W]

Agree. I don't like backtalk regardless of the age. You are using good training technique, varying the exercises, keeping it short and certainly should not put up with punk backtalk.

The first technique I would try is: I would probably stop dead still with a somewhat correction. Absolutely freeze, no attention, no movement, no looking at her. She'll start wondering "hey, what's going on here", when you can see her starting to seek your attention, give her a verbal dressing down "missy, that's enough of that" "now you work like a lady". Start your movement again, and when she spouts off, freeze and repeat the second you can see she is getting ready to complain again. She'll start to figure out that if she wants to do something - anything! - she's got to knock off the backtalk. Just being held imobile with no attention, nothing, no looking, etc. gets pretty old for the dog pretty darn fast.

She gets eye contact and smiles and rewards when she is working for them, not when she is complaining. Don't use the rewards as you start out after this freezing business. Being allowed to move and work is the reward. After a xxx number of minutes of working without complaint, then a reward is earned.

Try that first. It might take several training sessions and you have to do it right. Then if you're still having problems, come back and we'll move to level two.

I would suggest stopping movement because movement just allows her to continue to indulge in her emotion.

[Mojave's Mom]

I like Judi's advice :) Now if only that technique would work on Diablo....

[LynnS]

Thanks Judi

That makes PERFECT sense to me -
I will try that



Thanks

[Judi W]

The suggestion was breed specific :D BUT, it would sure be worth a try

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by Judi W
The suggestion was breed specific :D BUT, it would sure be worth a try

Trust me, we've tried EVERYTHING with him and there's only one method that works....and that method is definetely not the answer here for Lynn. :)

His issue is not with working...it's BECAUSE he doesn't get to work that he screams If another dog gets to do something and he doesn't get to do it too or is made to lay still while watching others do something, he screams. So we've backed wayyyyy up and are starting very slowly again with him. So far it's working...just taking so darn long because it's a very slow process :o

[mferg]

Originally posted by Mojave's Mom
His issue is not with working...it's BECAUSE he doesn't get to work that he screams If another dog gets to do something and he doesn't get to do it too or is made to lay still while watching others do something, he screams. :o

I know it can be a royal pain in the fanny to ignore screaming, but how about rewarding quietness with work? Have him on a long down (probably tied to prevent a major break), or the such, while working one of the other dogs. Ignore all sounds until he is quiet. When he shuts up, approach him and give him something to do. It might take two people to do this because the person working the first dog couldn't transition fast enough from one to the other. Sound far fetched? This is just brainstorming.

[Mojave's Mom]

Thanks Marlene :)

We've gone that route already. The methods we're using right now are working. It's just a long process.