remote trainer vs clicker training??

[nynewbie]

Hi again! We are going to school soon. I found I have two options in our area. One trainer uses a remote trainer. Another trainer uses clicker training. Nash is 6 years old and listens well to me. She is getting better each day at listening to my boys (ages 15 & 6) and my husband. Which way is better? I cringe at the thought of a remote trainer on her for off leash training. My 6 year old wants to walk her in our yard (not fenced) with me, but he wants to hold the leash. Should we get a prong collar for her when he walks her with me, or should we just hold off till the classes start? My husband and I can walk her with just her flat collar, reminding her "no pull" with a short jerk on the leash. My fifteen year old has a little more trouble, but she is getting better with him. When I let my six year old try to walk her next to me, he went flying when she went after our cat. He was upset that he couldn't hang on to the leash, that Nash would run and wouldn't come back. She just looked at us like "what are you doing back there?" and came trotting back to us. Needless to say, next time, I will make sure the cat is in the house! Thank you for all of your help!!!!:)

[Judi W]

It seems your selection for training is rather from one extreme to another. Are you sure those are your only two choices? If that is indeed the case, I'd opt for the clicker training at least to get started.

No walking of a Rottweiler by a 6 YO child. He might want to drive the car also, but you as parent can say "no" and I suggest you do so as far as walking the dog is concerned. A Rottweiler is not a toy. It is simply not safe for such a young and small child regardless of the level of training the dog has. The child could get hurt and the dog could get away especially since your yard is not fenced. So, let your boy do something else with the dog. He can hold a cookie and tell her to sit and down and they will both enjoy that. Do it in the house where there are few distractions and temptations. Best for both of them.

[DoggGuy]

the best thing about clicker training is that it is actually fun for the dog because there is no punishment involved meaning the dog doesnt fear training and is actually using its drive to please to do the commands as opposed to his fear of getting hurt for not doing them. The dogs that i have seen with remote training are actually usually very great dogs but when they hear that beep of the remote thier body drop low and they brace for the shock, even if it is just a warning. it can really scare them, I do however condone them when used with proper training for YOU bya professional, it saved the life of one of my past dobies. It is something only for extremely hard dogs that dont respond to other forms of training, and i feel a last resort.

stick with the click. I think you will like the dog that comes out of it. and the dog will love you for not shocking the @#*& out of it.

[Ramon]

If all you want is a nice pet around the house, a lot of compulsion is probably not necessary. I would generally prefer to try the more positive methods first. That being said, I would not judge a trainer based on his/her preferred method alone. Some of the best trainers I personally know use a lot of compulsion, but their training is geared toward competition.

[valdes43]

I don't know man. Compulsion is no doubt part of the equation but why training being geared towards competition make things a whole lot more compulsive?? If you have control of what's most reinforcing to the dog then you do not really need to apply much positive punishment. Now if your dog is interested in something that you cannot control in the environment then positive punishment is probably in order to refocus the dog on his task. It's almost that simple. :)

[spidey]

nynewbie: is there no trainer who does good old positive reinforcement-based collar and lead training? I'd keep looking if I were you, But if these really are your only choices, I'd go with the clicker training.

[Ramon]

What's "positive punishment"? Sounds like an oxymoron.
On House Manners vs Competition, the difference I'm referring to is the degree of proofing and the precision required. With house manners you just care if the dog sits in the immediate vicinity. With competition, the dog must sit quickly, his shoulder next to your knee, and his body aligned with yours. Then there's heeling. For most people it's enough that the dog doesn't pull on the leash, but if you don't want to lose points in competition the dog must look at you attentively with his body in a straight line and his shoulders about 4 inches from your knee. Same analogy applies to every other command. When my dog was a puppy, I could get him to do all the basic commands with very little compulsion, but just getting him to the BH level required a different kind of training. I know there are ways to creatively proof your dog through positive techniques, but it's always more complicated and time consuming.

[valdes43]

Sorry, should've explained better. It would sound like an oxymoron if you didn't study behavior. :) Positive means "to apply" and negative means " to take away". Punishment is to make the probability of the behavior decrease. So positive punishment would be to apply something (an aversive like force) to decrease the probability of a behavior. Sorry for the jargon.

Actually I feel that as long as you are in control of what's motivating the dog then you can shape very detailed behaviors, very quickly, and keep the dog happy. That is, if you have what they want! I teach all the fine points to position with positive reinforcement but if my dog is at an advanced level and happens to look away when he's supposed to give me attention because the guy jumping up and down is more interesting then you better believe I'm popping him. or at least giving him verbal reprimand if that's all that it takes to bring him back. And even then I'm just trying to give him an appropriate level of correction to get him to stop doing it so i might start a little light but if it doesn't work then I'm getting a bit harder.

People that spend time forcing every little detail on a competition dog spend a good amount of time trying to put the drive back in the dog aka minimizing the fear in the exercise by remotivating them.

[nynewbie]

These are the only two training methods in our area (yea, we live in the boonies!). I cannot imagine shocking Nash, it makes me cringe, so we will go for the clicker training. The best part about the clicker training that I like, that the trainer talked about, was the fact that our whole family can be involved and they recommended that, so we are all going to school. The class is 13 weeks. We are not looking for competition training. Just your basic training to enhance the skills that she already has and to teach her to walk better on a leash. Thank you soo much for all your input! We really appreciate it!:D I think after this class, we all will come out better trained!