electronic training collars ?

[Beckysmom]

I am searching the forums on this, but with rapid changing models and brands thought I should get up to date ideas on this question.

Does anyone have advice on best types of electronic training collars. Their use etc. (Main thing will be to stop my new rescue Bodhi from chasing trucks, or other things he might chase. He came to me after he was found running in highway, chasing vehicles and was almost killed by a semitruck. It seems to already be an ingrained habit, and the great pleasure of doing it seems to outweigh any possible positive reward I can offer him.)

He is being clicker trained in the positive reinforcement direction, but I think the comparatively milder aversive of a shock collar would be better than getting hit by a truck. Because he is being clicker trained, a collar that allowed a distance positive "click" would be helpful. I see that some adveritise "warning signal" and "positive tone" but don't know what the actual sounds are. A collar whose warning sounded like the clicker would not be a good thing.

I see that some look like they have more or less bulky collars and battery packs. And some seem to be waterproof others not. And the distance varies. And I am sure the ease of use does too, but I have never used one, so don't know what to look for.

Does anyone know if the Innotek brand available from Foster and Smith catalog is any good?

Thanks!

[Sansano]

Hi there.

Firstly if you have never used an e collar you would absolutely need to find a trainer to help you. This tool can put you backwards in training if used improperly. Now, I don’t know a lot about recommended collars but I think the Innotek ones that you see in normal catalogues are pretty much their bottom end ones and aren’t really recommended. Again, talking to a trainer with experience with be a big help. One thing I do know is that Innotek does offer a collar that utilizes a clicker and stimulation. Here is the link :


SD 200A

[GenHannibal]

Ditto what Sansano said. You need someone experienced to help you out with using the e-collar correctly. Make sure that the so-called "experienced" person doesn't just slap the collar on and start at the highest level! There are several steps that should be taken before you address the actual problem. I personally use Tritronics and have had no problems with it. I believe they do have a model that gives off a warning sound, the Sport 60. There may be a couple of others, also. They do have a web page, I think its www.remotetrainer.com if not do a search.

[Ramon]

I tried the Innotek Free Spirit collar (the one with the small transmitter), but I didn't like it. On that model, you can't change the settings on the fly, you have to pry open the cover and set the dip switches. I also heard that the Innoteks have a slight delay, which is a drawback if you use it for obedience. I was also not impressed with square design of the collar and the cheap feel of it.
The e-collar I'm using now is the Tritronics Pro 100XL. It's pricey, but it's also one of the best in my opinion. The workmanship and design are top notch. The collar and transmitter are designed to take a lot of abuse. I was very confident about taking it to the lake. They last over a month on a single charge, and the operation is very user friendly. The range is a mile long. The collar is small, and is designed to be less conspicuous than other collars. The collar's unique design allows for the prongs not to stick out so much, so your dog is more comfortable wearing the collar for long periods of time. My helper at my Schutzhund club, who has worked with several collars says that the corrections on the Tritronics are "sharper" compared to other collars, so the collar doesn't need as much juice to be effective, but at the same time, the high setting on the collar is one of the highest in the industry. He was the one who recommended the Tritronics to me. The Pro models include a sound emitter, so if you needed to use it for positive reinforcement it's there. They cost about twice as much as my Innotek, but to me it was worth it.
If you don't want to pay as much, the Tritronics Sport models are cheaper than the Pro models. The collars are similar but the Sport models' transmitters are smaller and less functional. I like the dual buttons on the Pro models that allow you to instantly choose between low, medium, and high corrections.
The DT Systems collars are about the same price as the Innoteks but have more functionality. I've seen them and used them briefly. You can tell they aren't as well made as the Tritronics, but you get a very good collar for the money.
If you're on a budget, I recommend the DT Systems collars. If you can afford the Tritronics Pro models, I like the Pro 100XL or the Pro 500XL. The Tritronics Sport models fall in between the DT and Tritronics Pro in price and quality.

[Beckysmom]

Thanks. that was helpful on personal experience. A delay certainly seems like it would make positive reinforcement less useful and maybe negative also.

What are dip switches? Whatever they are, that doesn't sound good.

Have you had any experience of the Dogtra by any chance which seems to allow for a dial system of setting the stimulation to the dog's appropriate level?

I'll take a look at the Tritronics line both pro and sport.

[Ramon]

Dip switches look like very, very small light switches. On the Innotek Free Spirit they are so small you need a fine point pen or something smaller to move them. I think there are 3 of them inside the transmitter that you have to move in certain combinations to get different levels of correction. It's very inconvenient. You basically have to find one setting that you use all the time because you can't change settings on the field.
One of the guys in my Schutzhund club has a Dogtra. It works well, although I didn't like the external antenna. I don't know if the newer ones have that. It looks and operates almost identically to the DT Systems collar, except the Dogtra costs more.

[Ramon]

Originally posted by GenHannibal
I personally use Tritronics and have had no problems with it. I believe they do have a model that gives off a warning sound, the Sport 60. There may be a couple of others, also. They do have a web page, I think its www.remotetrainer.com if not do a search.

Their website is good for info, but it's probably not the best place to buy one.
I got mine at www.gundogsonline.com. You can find a lot of other collars too at www.ecollars.com.

[Mick Trainer]

I have over time used and owned innotek, Tri-Tronics and Dogtra. Without question the newer Dogtra collars with the dials to alter stimulation levels are the best collars on the market as they allow far more sensitivity of movement in terms of stimulation levels which, with reliability, is the most important quality in a collar for me.

Also I find that the sender is far stronger which I like.

However I have had zero trouble with either of my Innotek or Tri_tronics collar. Just make sure that the collar has different levels of stimulation from the hand set (by this I mean more than one button not pulling open the back and playing with switches. It is too time consuming). Being able to alter the stimulation level from one second too the next is very important for high level training.

Whilst I actively use and support the use of e-collars as a legitimate training tool I would also strongly suggest that you seek the help of an experienced trainer to help you learn how to bets use it. There is no other piece of equipment that can cause learned helplessness than a miss used e-collar. I will not sell one to a customer until they have advanced OB trained their dog. This by no means should suggest that the e-collars are bad it is just that they are so easy to use incorrectly. Always remember that with any use of either positive punishment or negative re-enforcement that the dog must first know what he/she should be doing before we tell them what they should not be doing.

In your case I would also hope that you (and it sounds like you will) engage in heavy habituation (desensitization) training to help the dog reduce his desire before you use the e-collar.

Mick.

[valdes43]

Mick,

Can you please elaborate a little on what you said on learned helplessness? Are you referring to passed the point of displacement behavior? Or would you consider displacement behavior a stem from learned helplessness? It obviously comes from a problem of inhibition and an unclarity on what to do with it's energy or maybe the clarity of not to do anything with it's energy and eat it up. Which is where you would get the developement of health problems, etc..

Also, if it's not too much trouble and benificial to the thread, can you please elaborate on an example on how the electric collar would form learned helplessness.

[Judi W]

I would like to support Mick's statement about advanced obedience training prior to use. It is through that training that the handler learns how to read the dog and what the dog understands so that they can use the collar fairly and effectively. Use of the collar is not a short cut but a refining tool.

[Mick Trainer]

Valdes43,

I will try to get back here ASAP to answer you questions. If you haven't heard from me in say 3 days email me and tell me to "get my a#* back here".

Mick.