Clicker training?

[rott&pitincali]

What is clicker training?

Has anyone tried it?

[shybird]

Clicker training is a method by which you "mark" the behavior you want with a click. A click means that a treat will soon follow. Example, the dog sits, you click and treat. Every time the dog sits you click. Eventually you add the verbal command sit. The dog quickly learns that to sit will get you to click. Here is a website that might be helpful: http://www.clickerlessons.com/
Its fun, and it works.

[rott&pitincali]

So you dont automaticaly give a command with the click?

It sounds easy. I will definitly read the link. It sounds as though you have had sucess with this method of training. What about with dog aggression. Peanut hasn't shown any form of aggression yet, but I was just curious. I seriously doubt I could train Sadie this way. What if they are not treat driven?

[shybird]

You kinda let the dog pick the behavior at first, and if you like it you "mark" that behavior with a click. The treat doesn't have to be a dog biscuit, it could be human food like hotdogs cut into tiny pieces, or steak cut into tiny pieces. You eventually get rid of the treats and change to verbal praise. I did a little clicker training when Schatz was a tiny pup. We did the basic sit, down, shake hands, but I didn't use it for any problems, so I can't advise on that. There are quite a number of clicker sites on the web, just do a search on clicker training and you'll get alot of sites to read. Have fun.

[Rottlva]

A clicker is an training apparatus which is generally box shaped and when pressed in it makes a "click" noise. The click is used to mark a correct behavior.

I highly recommend them!

Look up Karen Pryor, Gary Wilkes, or Gail Fisher they are all well known clicker trainers with good information.

Think of the clicker as a reinforcer. Instead of saying "good dog" you click. It's quicker, never changes tone, and can be done more precicely then a verbal praise.

To start you off begin to click and treat, click and treat until your dog realizes that click=treat.

The dogs really love training with the clickers. I trained my dog incorporating some clicker into his behaviors. Mostly to shape them into better form.

I'm sure there's a clicker trainer on this site.... keep asking around!!

[DNeff]

Clicker training can be used to teach all different types of behaviors. It can also be used to help treat aggression through counter conditioning and desensitization.
Clicker training is pairing a sound with something that the dog really likes. Whether that thing is food (which is easy and fast) or play (throwing a ball, tug). The dog learns that the clicker sound means something good is about to happen because of an action by the dog.
Clicker training can be used as a simple marker of the moment the dog is correct instead of using a verbal word like "good" or "yes". You could lure the dog in to a sit and then click and treat once they sat. Clicker training can also be used to "shape" a behavior which means you wait for the dog to offer something that you can "mold" in to the behavior you are looking for. In case you would wait for the dog to turn his head to the left, click and treat that, gradually building this in to the dog moving in a circle to the left.
Lots of trainers use clickers in different ways. It depends on what works best for you and your dog. Some trainers and dogs can get frustrated or bored trying to shape a behavior from scratch. Others relish the challenge of creating a behavior from nothing without ever prompting or touching your dog.
I use a clicker to train obedience, agility and tricks. I use it to simply mark correct behavior and I also use it to shape a new behavior from scratch. Both work great. I don't use a clicker all the time, but I do use it primarly in the beginning phases of all exercises.
I have found clickers make things clear for dogs, since the signal is the same all the time. Many dog owners can be vague in their timing and in their praise. Clickers clear some of that up and make it easier for the dog to understand when they were correct.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CD NA NAJ NAC NGC NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[rott&pitincali]

Thank you everyone for the insite. I actually think I might try it on Sadie first. I dont know if Peanut has the patients to work with it. I can hardly get her to sit still for a moment. I'm afraid I might get frustrated with her. Sadie has been more eager to learn the little things, while Peanut...we are still working on basics. But it will come.

Sorry I didn't post a thank you sooner, I haven't been able to log on at all today. Thank god the site is back, I'll tell you it has been a very boring day at work!:)

[Ramon]

Clicker training is just one of the many tools you can use to train your dog. I don't think it is the answer to everything. While I've heard it can be used on just about anything including treating aggression and proofing for precision, an electric or prong collar will do the job a lot quicker on those kinds of things and require less creativity and effort on your part.
I find that it works best as a tool to teach the dog new behaviors without resorting to compulsion. For instance, I'm using it to teach my dog the retrieve. For obedience and Schutzhund competitions, the retrieve is actually a very complex set of movements. For competition, it is often taught using a lot of compulsion, but I've found that using the clicker to mark small steps in my dog's progression is working very well. If I have to proof him later, I might use compulsion, but by then he's already learned what is expected and should know what to do when he is corrected.

[mark_sherry]

an electric or prong collar will do the job a lot quicker on those kinds of things and require less creativity and effort on your part.

Amen to that. While I think the e-collar is the last resort, the prong collar should definitely be one of the primary training tools in your arsenal. I don't have much faith in clicker training, but the methods won't hurt the dog, so have at it. I think you'll have much more success, however, by using a variety of approaches to training. Clicker-only, positive-reinforcement-only, etc., is too limiting in its approach and doesn't help correct the undesirable behaviors of your dog. You'll get farther faster with a prong collar. But only if you use it correctly.

[DNeff]

Clicker-only, positive-reinforcement-only, etc., is too limiting in its approach and doesn't help correct the undesirable behaviors of your dog.

Actually clicker training and positive reinforcement methods are used quite a bit to solve lots of behavioral problems. Several of the top behaviorist in the country use clickers for fixing aggressive and destructive behaviors in dogs. The key to using clickers to fix problems is using a non-reward maker, which is a word, such as "wrong" to let the dog know they were incorrect and then using the clicker to teach the dog the proper behavior. The focus is on showing the dog how he can be right, not what he has done incorrectly.
I think many people have the mistaken impression that you can't train a dog using all positive methods and end up with a good working dog. I have done all of my obedience and agility training with my rottie using all positive methods. I didn't use a prong to teach heeling, I didn't pinch his ear to proof my retrieve. Guess what I have an outstanding obedience and agility dog, who loves to work. His lowest obedience score has been a 192. We have tied for high in trial twice at obedience trials.
Positve training does take a lot of work, and it isn't a quick process. But to say you can't do it, is incorrect. I have 2/3rds a CDX and am 90% done with my utility training all without using any physical corrections in my training sessions. Plenty of undesirable behaviors crop up during a training sessions, I just choose to deal with them in a positive methods instead of using a physcial correction. Does that make my dog any less well trained??

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CD NA NAJ NAC NGC NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[mark_sherry]

I've know many experienced trainers who use only positive reinfocement with their training (clicker is under this category), and while the dogs may react a certain way to a certain stimulus, it is not possible to eradicate their negative behaviors completely using this approach only. This is especially true for large working breeds. When one says they abhor physical correction for a dog, they are abhorring the laws of nature. A mother corrects her pups by grabbing the scruff of the neck, and the pup learns the desired behavior. A mother does not just reward pups when the pup demonstrates correct behavior. The same should apply to training. While many people have had success with clicker-only/positive-only training, there's no way that anyone can convince me that it's a complete training method on its own, and there are way too many expert trainers who've titled many dogs who will say the exact same thing. What I'm not doing is arguing against or putting anyone down who does clicker-only/positive-only training. If you're satisfied with the results, and your dog isn't getting hurt by your training methods, then by all means use them. As for me and my group, I chose to use multiple methods of training that will cover all of the bases completely.

[DNeff]

it is not possible to eradicate their negative behaviors completely using this approach only

I'm curious what you are basing this on. I personally know many people and professional trainers that have completely stopped and rehabilitated aggressive behaviors using only positive methods. No, you can't cure evey dog of all the time. That goes for using negative methods as well. Most negative methods only supress the behavior in question. Sometimes a correction can actually cause the dog to become more aggressive, not less.
I would suggest you work with some people like Donna Duford, Shelia Booth, Terry Ryan, Trish King, Patricia McConnell, Sue Sternburg and Pia Silvani. Having spent time watching all of these trainers work with very aggressive dogs, I have seen first hand how they have helped dogs who were on "death row" due to some of these issues. How many experienced positive trainers have you worked with to see that it doesn't work?
For the record most professional positive trainers don't abhor physical corrections, they feel they get better results without using them. There's a difference.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CD NA NAJ NAC NGC NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Miabella]

I would also weigh in that certain temperments and breeds do not respond well to leash corrections. I know that if I ever put a prong on my Beagle, he would utterly shut down. I enforce my commands by physically placing him in the position or giving him a voice correction, and this is working well to proof his training. Different dogs take different methods, and it is up to the trainer and owner to be able to distinguish what each individual dog needs. That being said, I believe that the initial teaching of a command should be done with positive reinforcement for every dog. Start out by making training fun and motivational during the learning period. When the dog is still learning a command, there is no place for corrections, IMHO.

[rott&pitincali]

Ok, well I think I might actually try it. So where would I go to get a clicker? We have used a prong collar, and it works good. Now that she knows the basics, I want to refine them a bit. I think it will work good doing that. I am definitly talking about Sadie here, as Peanut is just learning the basics.

[halliebear]

You can get a clicker at Petsmart. Here is a great site for clicker training. http://www.clickersolutions.com

I don't use it all the time, but Hal (my 3 yr old rescue rotti) was having a hard time with "down" I used the clicker for a couple of days, and voila!

Now he almost throws himself into a down, wagging his little stump and smiling - he understands!

Try it with both your dogs, you'd be surprised how quickly they might take to it.

halliebear