Please help me with my 1 year old Rottie

[iluvrotts]

Harley will listen to my husband with no problem, but he will not listen to me. I work with him in the backyard for a while everyday and he will only listen to me if he knows that I have a pocketful of treats. If he doesn't smell any treats on me, he will not sit or do a down or anything! He is a year old.

We also have a problem with heeling; he drags me. I have tried to use a prong collar, and it helps, but I have small weak hands and I have alot of trouble putting it on so I can only use it when my husband is home to put it on for me. I have heard that they make a new prong collar with a quick release; is this easier to put on and just as effective?

He is a really good boy otherwise, no food or dog aggression, no vicious behavior or biting (sometimes he does mouth a little though when he plays) and he never jumps on people.

I've come to the conclusion by reading "The Dog who loved too much" that my dog does not respect me and I am below him in the pack order. But I'm not really sure what to do about it; when he is behaving badly, I give the collar a snap and yell, "No!" But my voice is soft and no matter how loud I yell, he just looks at me and continues doing the bad behavior. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing for discipline. I'm sure not going to smack him or anything like that. I ordered ???????? Kennels Video and he had the "I just killed you correction" on it, but didn't show or specify what he does. And that didn't sound too pleasant of a thing anyway.

Harley was a really good puppy, really well behaved and mellow, although he never walked well on the leash, and the last two-three months, he has been a real terror.

I've been reading books, watching videos, ect, and I still don't know how to get him to listen to me consistantly. I may say, "Harley, sit." And he may do it or he may not. Most of the time he won't do it and he surely knows what sit means.

I am his primary caregiver, as my husband is always working, so I'm not sure why Harley respects him over me. I am the one that takes him out (except in the mornings, my husband takes the dogs out right before he leaves for work) and feeds him. Harley just adores me, he wants to sit by me all day and lick my face! But he will not listen to me consistantly.

I am considering taking him to a professional trainer, but they keep the dog for several weeks with them so they can work with him 3 or 4 times a day and twice a week, I would go to a class with him and the trainer. It costs $600 and I really don't mind spending the money if I get results, but I'm honestly afraid that he will come back home and still not listen to me!

Can anyone offer advice on how to get him to listen to me and heel without dragging me down the street? I generally don't even take him for walks anymore (it is too stressful, and embarrassing, and I'm afraid he will get loose on me if he pulls too hard --he is so strong that we went through 4 collars in the last 3 months, they break!), as we have a fenced in huge backyard and I put the leash on him and walk around the perimeter of the yard to practice, but as soon as he sees something that interests him, such as the beagle next door or a neighbor or a squirrel, he just drags me across the yard.

[TLR]

I´m so far from a pro you can possible get but this is my suggestion...

Allways train without treats, I do this and it works for me.
The basics anyway, the treats can help when you train heel etc.

Praise with your voice and hands, ruffle, pat etc etc
If he doesn´t listen, put the treats in your pocket and let them stay there until you have ended the training session. Then give him some. If he "ends" the training session don´t give him any treats. When he comes to you and want attention tell him to sit, if he doesn´t sit, ignore him. If he obeys praise him (without treats). If he insist on attention correct him.

Maybe he obeys better if you husband is standing beside you at the begining?

I have read somewhere that the rottweiler thinks your weak as a leader if you praise/suck up to much. Let him have it the hard way and "treat him like a dog" for a while :)

Good luck!

[TLR]

About the pulling part, use a good rope style choke collar.
Do a Google.com search on "Silent Training Choke Collar" and you will find a picture of what I mean.

When he starts to drag you say NO, jerk the leash and stop walking. When he stops pulling continue walking.

[Anne]

Sounds to me like he does need professional obedience training. I wouldn't send him away for 6 weeks though..Either find a trainer who is familiar with Rotts and train on a one to one basis to start off and then go to a group class. I'm sure the more experienced trainers here such a Judi W will be able to shed more light on this for you.

[poohbearsmom]

Send him to a trainer that he will learn to listen to, why not enroll in a group obedience class???? You will be handling him, and that way, he will learn to listen to YOU. With a group class, you have the benefits of distraction, and an instructor that can help you finetune your handling skills....I'm of the belief that group classes are not for training your dog (you do that at home between each class), they are to train you to train your dog....;)

If what you are looking for is to have your dog bond with you, and gain respect for you, then it's up to YOU to deal with him, IMHO..to send him off for training does not afford you the opportunity to conquer your task at hand, which is to have a reliable, consistantly well behaved member of your household.

Good luck
Elisabeth

[poohbearsmom]

I also believe there is nothing wrong with treat training - keep em in your pocket when you take him outside.....perhaps if he doesn't respond without them, then he does not yet have a true understanding of what you are asking of him...??

You might try mixing it up a little, though..... intersperse the treats with physical and verbal praise, and maybe throw in a ball retrieve into the mix....keep him on his toes...!!

Elisabeth

[Judi W]

He listens to your husband, and you could hire someone who the dog would learn to listen to, how does that help you? Well, it doesn't.

Since you see yourself as weak - small weak hands, soft voice, you'd never dream of giving him a smack.......... why should he see you as strong? He will not. Weaklings are not leaders and that is the fact of it.

It is possible to learn to change the timber of your voice. Many do so. I have students that have had to learn to do so. People involved in public speaking often have to learn such things. School teachers who sound weak and unsure because of their intonation and inflection are quickly disrespected, and must learn to speak differently or they will be very unsuccessful in the classroom. If the pinch collar is fitted correctly and used properly, it works. If you are also timid in your corrections - it will not. The same applies to body language which usually reflects one's confidence or lack thereof.

So, the answer lies in your mental self-image and confidence, not the dogs. Dogs are not managed through brute force, but through their minds. They do not defer to those who do not exhibit those qualities that demand respect. Size has nothing to do with it.

Now, what to do? Well, there are lots of tricks designed to help. One is the "no free lunch" program. He must obey a command before he gets anything from you. That includes praise or petting and it certainly means food. If you have been in the habit of stroking him and petting him for no reason whatsoever, stop it. Unless he obeys a command quickly and promptly, he should not get a treat. No second chances, let alone third or fourth. Quit using treats as lures and use them only as rewards. Also, do not lie to your dog. If you tell him to do something - mean it and enforce it. No ifs ands or buts. Quit seeing yourself as weak and unable to manage him. Dogs are not easily fooled. Unless and until you have him responding promptly and respectfully at home, do not take him out for walks where he has the experience of dragging you around. That simply reinforces in his mind, that you have no authority. You have to decide who is in charge.

Although all dogs benefit from training and I certainly would advise formal training for all, that is not going to solve the problem of him failing to respect you if you do not see yourself as someone he must respect. Does that mean you cannot live together peacefully? Not necessarily. Just as dogs live peacefully with children who they do not consider their leaders, they can live with an adult the same way. It is not recommended or desireable and it certainly means you should not attempt to take the dog places any more than we would send a Rottweiler out with a child. The choice is truly yours. A trainer can help you learn to use your voice and to give corrections but I would recommend private lessons, not sending the dog off to live with a trainer, nor would I want to see you attempting to go to a class with the dog dragging you wherever he wants to go. Until you get past that part of the training, you cannot work with a group.

Well, this appears to be a bit of a lecture, and I am sorry, but I hope it will stimulate you to roll up your sleeves, put on your supervisor's hat and get to work.

[Rottlva]

Please...if you are thinking seriously about boarding/training consult the "residential training' post. Type it in under the search key. I'm sorry for not including the link... can't figure out how. This thread will share with you the positive and negative aspects of having someone else train your dog!

[Trinitii]

I used to have that same problem with my first rottie. I wanted soo badly to not have the same problem with my second. As Judi said it is a state of mind and you can do it! I try to pretend well I'm not sure how to put it in words but sort of cocky, demanding, and full of myself around Athena. I believe it has does wonders as I can now say her name and she will stop picking on my husband but she does't listen to him as well. I do make her do some commands every day before she gets her food or a treat. I do training sessions with a leash on first and won't let her go play till she has done my command. I use treats but I do it every other one or if it is a command she really knows like sit, I pat her head if it is a harder one for her like down (she hates that one) I give her two to three little pieces where she feels like she really hit the jack pot. Consistency is the key even if it is a pain in the butt. Like when I say come and she is out in the yard but fails to do so and continues playing with the neighbors dog..I grab the leash walk on over hook her to it give a tug and pull her to me then say good come with a pat on the head. You shouldn't ask more than once. If you believe your dog knows the command be patient. Athena knows a command but will not do it at times. I don't ask again I wait for a few minutes..she usually does what I ask if not I say wrong and she starts thinking like oh you asked me something that's right and does the command. The thing I still am working on is the over attention giving. I could hug and kiss her all day. We should practice asking her to watch, shake, sit or something then pet her. If she nudges her to pet her ..don't do it. Wait a bit then give her a command and pet. EEPs this is long. Sorry but hang in there!


Oh and when your in that state of mind try to keep it only with the dog and not the husband hehe :)

Trinitii

[Rottlva]

It seems as if you are not pack leader!! Rotties are just to big and confident to have a wishy washy handler! Try to do the following things!

You need to become the giver of all good things! No Free Lunch. Make Harley work for every morsel of attention, food, toys, walks ect. Make sure YOU give them to him! By doing this you are establishing your dominance. You are doling out the resources. Make Harley sit for a treat, down and stay for breakfast, sit at the door while you go out first and then he goes ect. As boss you go first, Harley follows!

As for the pulling try walking Harley 10 paces forward. The moment he starts to pull automatically change direction. Keep doing this but change the number of steps and the area you are practicing! Dogs quickly recognize patterns so be on top of changing the pattern. You will begin to notice Harley hanging back more and more. He will begin to look to you for direction.

When you feel confident that his pulling is on the mend start adding in distractions. Work him close to your neighbors beagle. So close that he realizes the dog is there but far enough that it isn't a big deal. If he pulls increase the distance between the 2 dogs. As he gets better with the dog start in closer. The moment he pulls increase that distance again. Try this with anything Harley has a problem with. This requires intense consistency, but Harley will get it;)
A search of threads under residential training will bring up alot of issues with boarding training. Please read it! There are alot of good points mentioned.
As for your tiny stature.......I've seen tiny 4-H handlers working thier rotts in obedience..... they don't have problems.... your rott may be stronger then you... but don't let him outsmart you
All the best!

[ILoveRotts]

Attitude is the key!!!!!

I too am small but my dogs don't know that. They know that I control their lives.

My Drakey is 150lbs (I'm 125lbs) and listens better to me than to my husband. He doesn't know he out weighes me or is much stronger than me.

Dogs are smart - if they sense your timid - they will take over.

Get an attitude, go for training, and Good Luck!

[iluvrotts]

Thanks for all your great advice. I am guilty of not being the leader, I suppose. I should point out that Harley is not my first rottweiler; I also have a 5 year old female (who is a pet). I acquired Harley to show after I had so enjoyed having our other rottie girl. It is really disheartening because I tried to do everything right with him, I was worried about dog and food agression, so I exposed him to plenty of dogs while he was young and sat next to him and hand fed him out of his bowl. He does not have any dog aggression, he loves other dogs, and he could be eating the best bone in the world and he makes nothing of it if I take it away. He just looks at me like, "Hey, why did you take my bone away!"

Harley is not neutered because when we had planned to show him in conformation. He is a beautiful dog. My mother suggested neutering him and forgetting about showing him and this may help his problems, but I don't think it will, as his behavior problems aren't really the "unneutered behavior type of problems". He doesn't make nothing of female dogs in heat (the neighbors across the street breed pugs, so I'm sure he can catch the scent), he has never done any humping of anything, people or furniture, he doesn't mark in the house (outside he enjoys marking the trees, mailboxes, lightpoles), and he is not an aggressive dog. He will bark at strangers who walk by at night or if he hears a noise, but my mother's cockapoo does this too!

I love this dog, and showing him is much lower in priority than living in harmony with him, so if in your opinion, neutering will help, I will do it. He is my first male dog, and the first unaltered dog. I do take great pains to make sure an accidental breeding doesn't occur. He is never allowed alone in the yard and if I have to do something in the house or I cannot be out there (usually I read a book on the patio furniture while I watch him or play with him), I have a 10x10 foot kennel in the yard with a sunshade and I stick him in there for a bit (he hates the kennel though). But I really wanted to get started in showing. Although I must say that I don't have any plans on breeding him (unless he turned out to be just so fabulous at show, as I believe there are already so many gorgeous, titled rottweiler stud dogs out there), I really had my heart set on leaving him intact, so I can show him. Of course, I cannot even bring him into a group class now because he will drag me all around, so showing is out until I can get him to be obedient to me.

I do give him alot of attention (maybe too much, I cannot get out of petsmart without buying four or five things for this guy); he adores me and wants to be wherever I am. If I'm on my computer and he is in the house, he is almost always under my desk or laying by my chair. He was the absolute best puppy, never had much problem with biting, jumping, chewing ect, so possibly it is the hormones. We used crate training and he did well. He didn't always act like this, we would have a problem here and there like most people do, but at about 8 months, he just decided he didn't want to listen to me anymore. It has gotten so bad that when I want him to come in, and I yell, "Harley, come!" he won't come at all, and I have to resort to yelling, "Harley wanna Eat?" and then he will run in because he knows he is going to get his dinner or a treat.

Our 5 year old rottweiler is much more obedient and we have had her since she was a small puppy (8 weeks), but she is not really headstrong.

I will try the Nothing is Free thing that Judi and Rottlva told me about. I do spend alot of time petting him, especially when I watch TV. I also think that I will reconsider the residential training idea, as I have decided it may not be a good idea after Elisabeth and Judi's advice. I also looked up the residental training post that Rottlva told me about and I was horrified that some trainers may use inhumane methods of training; I would be worried someone would hurt him.

I also like the idea of changing directions constantly when walking him, and the idea of buying him a rope collar, as TLR suggested (I didn't know these existed!). I will also try to work on deepening my voice a little. I just tried that with him and when I lowered my voice and tried to make it louder and man like (although I felt ridiculous doing it and I hope none of the neighbors heard), he did turn and respond. Trinitii, thanks for sharing your experiences; it gives me hope that I can work through these problems.

If I could get him to stop dragging (and you probably know how strong this brute is!) and to listen to me consistantly, he would be such a good dog.

I thank all of you who have given me such good advice; I have a bunch of new things to try. I do have alot of time; I'm a stay at home mom, so time is not a problem. It just gets so frustrating being dragged here and there like a ragdoll! Sometimes I actually feel battered after a long session with him, like my arms are going to fall out of the sockets and my joints and body hurt all over! Sometimes he will even run around me and I'll get all tangled up in the leash and fall over! I always get the feeling that the neighbors (who are always out and we don't have a privacy fence, but we are getting one soon) are all laughing at me because my dog acts so badly! I've never thought of myself as weak, just small. I have had horses all my life and large dogs and never had trouble like this. But obviously Harley considers me weak, or at least not as strong as him.

[cucciolone]

Hi, iluvrotts. In addition to what the others have said so far, I'd like to call your attention to this: make sure that you're not reinforcing your dog's lack of respect for you by ever repeating a command. I personally think that this is a very important point.

Dogs have a very keen sense of hearing: yes, he did hear "sit" the very first time you said it. If you repeat yourself, you will appear to be negotiating with him, you will essentially be giving him permission to ignore your voice. It's important that you never issue a command that you're not prepared to reinforce (with a correction) the first time around. (Of course, it wouldn't be fair to give a correction for a command that hasn't been taught well and fully understood, but I assume that at a year of age, he has been taught the basics. And if he knows how to obey your husband's commands, he knows how to obey yours as well!)

But perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, and what I wrote will be of use to you only in the future, once you've begun to learn to LEAD your dog. At this point in your relationship, with the balance of power so heavily tipped in his favor, what you really need to do is see a trainer as soon as possible. Please take Judi's advice and see about one-on-one lessons. Like she said, if he sees you as so clearly subordinate to him, you might be able to live peacefully within your house, but it could be very dangerous for you to walk him if you have no control over his actions. For one, he could drag you into oncoming traffic!

I agree completely with the others- leadership is a state of mind, not of brawn. If you are convinced that you are not stronger (willed) than your dog, he will be MORE than convinced of that, right along with you.

Best of luck,

[iluvrotts]

Michela,
I am definitely guilty of repeating commands. Sometimes I will have to say sit five or six times before he does it. And he definitely understands what sit, down, stay means, as if I'm holding a Bil Jac liver snack in my hand, he immediately does it, just so he can get the treat. I suppose I can spend my entire life with my pockets filled with liver snacks, but I want him to listen to me all the time, not just when I am bribing him with a treat. My sister and I were discussing this at length once and she pointed out that in an emergency situation when I really needed him to listen, I may not have a treat on hand. What kind of correction is effective? Right now I usually snap the leash and say no, but it doesn't seem to phase him. That is what I worry about if I take him out, that he will drag me right into traffic and kill both of us!

I just looked at Diesel's pictures, he is adorable! What could ever be cuter than a rottweiler puppy? I like the picture with him and his little friend! They look like they are having a blast! I just realized that there was more than one page of pictures, how beautiful he is all grown up! You must be so proud of him!

[cucciolone]

Originally posted by iluvrotts
What kind of correction is effective? Right now I usually snap the leash and say no, but it doesn't seem to phase him.

Is the prong collar properly fitted? Are you giving it just a little nagging tug (which would certainly leave him unimpressed), or a swift, decisive pop that he can really feel? You need to demand that he obey you, not request it. You have to mean business, or he will call your bluff. Every time you issue a command and then back down in the face of his resistance, you're reinforcing your subordinant position.

I'm sure that someone with more experience can answer your specific training questions more thoroughly than I, but above and beyond the individual issues like this one, I do think that your relationship with him really needs an overhaul, and that you need to appeal to a trainer who will teach you how to do all of these things up close & personal. Your dog seems to have learned that what you say does not count in the least- that's a big problem! I don't think that you'll be able to resolve it with a few internet suggestions. Reading and consulting online experts is valuable, but it is no replacement for hands-on training. It can only be regarded as a supplement to the real training.

I like the picture with him and his little friend!

I do, too, that's one of my favorites! I think Diesel looks like an alligator in that picture! I appreciate all of the nice comments- thanks. :)

Please keep us posted on your progress!