Coins in a bottle

[Vivianne]

I’ve heard not to use this method for correction, but even though Madison has been in continuous education since 4 months of age (started in puppy classes and is now in advanced obedience) she still tries to push her limits with us.

It’s the typical adolescence behavior I’ve been reading about on the forum lately. I’m not the only one, so those threads have helped. She’s on a leash every minute she’s out of her crate, I put her in the crate for time-out periods, she gets no petting and correction when she mouths us, (sit stay or down stay).

She responds to all of this very well, but five minutes go by and bang she’s at it again. I’m sure it’s an age thing (she’s 8 months).

So when I was almost wishing I hadn’t got her in the first place (temporary insanity I call it) I grabbed an empty water bottle and put a few pennies in. While she was on the couch, a big no-no, I rattled this thing, told her off and she was perfect angel for longer than usual.

Should I use this or not? Our trainer told us not to, but this was during puppy classes. Is there a difference now that she’s older? Our classes are once a week, so I can’t discuss this with her till next week. Please point me in the right direction.

[Karyn]

Pennies in a can is the only thing that worked with my "concrete" head beagle (they are one of the most stubborn breeds God ever created - but I love her). Never had to use it for the rottie or german shepherd. I recall reading somewhere about putting pot covers under a sofa cover to discourage jumping up on the sofa.

[Vivianne]

Madison is way too bright for the pot covers idea, but thanks. After I’ve corrected her for getting up on the couch (her whole body), she puts both front paws and half her torso on the seat cushion while both back legs are on the floor. She then turns her head to face me with a question mark in her eyes, “like is this much of me on the couch okay?” She’s a pistol this one.

[damp]

I my opinion the best training tools you have are: Collar, leash and last but not least your VOICE and nothing else is necessary in dog training. No matter when, where or what your voice is always there and can be used in the right second before she even thinks or when you catch her in the act.

All other paraphernalia are a shortcut and will only cure a symptom but not the real problem. (Yes the dog may respect the bitter apple, the spray bottle and coins bottle but not your words)

If your dog obeys sit, down and other commands just because you say so…I am sure you also can teach her, that NO is NO and means stop now, whatever she is about to do.

Remember the dog lives in the moment and learns in the moment. I don’t think she understands what time-out in the crate is all about… but I am sure she will understand a deserved and correct timed correction by the collar and a firm no.

[LavenderRott]

My Oliver is pretty hard headed and sometimes something is needed to distract him so that he can hear me. I used a soda can with popcorn in it for my collie pup. A water bottle with coins should be equally effective.

As you know, this is no substitute for working with your dog and I sure didn't see you mention anything about using this instead of actual training.

I say, use whatever works.

[mountain dani]

I read once about using a set of keys lobed in the air to land BESIDE the culprit and that was the only thing that would work with our hound, Blue, after a few time the jingle of the keys was enough to remind him of his manners. Brutus on the other hand has enough respect to stay off the sofa, except on the odd time that i've found him spread right out on it on the morning (it happenes pretty rarely and who can blame him for testing that limit)
Good luck :)
Dani and Brutus

[Sharon Marples]

We've used rocks in the plastic milk containers as well. Works for a good temporary "fix." When my girls start rough-housing and won't stop with a simple "no" all I do is pick up the bottle. As soon as any of them hear one little jingle from the rocks, they all become little angels! Don't know how or why it works, but it does and has some pretty long-time effects for us.

Also, we walk the four girls on our six acres several times a day. The milk bottle jug works great because you can throw it at them and even if it doesn't land too close, they get the message and quickly stop the undesireable behavior.

Sharon Marples

[Judi W]

Well, I'm pretty much with Damp on this one and your trainer. If your trainer indicated it was not a preferable training method why do you think that changes? I don't use squirt bottles or shaker cans or.........

Sharon, the bottle full of rocks is used by some trainers in herding to back a dog off the stock that is working too close, so I understand what you are saying especially out in the fields. I just don't see the necessity of that in household situations for sure and with only one dog????

As mentioned in a recent thread when someone said they were using a "water threat", I would rather get up close and personal with a dog that is dissing me. We would be going eyeball to eyeball for sure and there would be no mistaking whether it was OK to put a piece of me between their chompers or climb up on my couch.

If you dog is still putting her teeth on you at 8 months of age, you've not been communicating very clearly with her all along. Likewise if she still feels free to climb on the couch when you are present. (if you aren't present, that shaker can isn't either).

I sometimes give students "voice" lessons if they do not appear to have a voice that communicates corrections effectively. Ditto with body language.

Yes, the sound can switch focus, but your voice certainly should be able to do that also. If the dog hasn't learned from your body language and tone of voice when they've crossed the line you likely have been being too permissive or unclear in the rules you might be using. Dogs can read artificial attempts at leadership from genuine leadership very well. If you truly mean it and have rules that you feel strongly about and not ambigious, they are rarely disrespected. This is especially true if you are dealing with only one dog at a time and don't have group frolic taking place and certainly in a confined place like inside the house. My group frolics also come to a grinding halt when I yell "that's enough" or "knock it off"............. Of course all the neighborhood dogs quit what they are doing as well.....:D

[Chester'sMom]

I am with Karyn. It has worked for me before with my first Rottweiler. I am prepared to use it again with my 2nd when he starts to act up. "Chester" (AKA "Fatman") so far is doing very well. Sorry, gotta go - my oldest one just knocked one my middle one's teeth out, so the toothfairy can come for him tonight! I can see blood over there. Update tomorrow!

[Vivianne]

Thanks for all your comments.

I don't intend to use the bottle to replace any training or correction methods I've used so far. Madison responds to me 95% of the time when I speak or tell her no, leave it, or off, whatever the case may be. It's mainly my roommate that I was asking this question for. She does me a favor by watching Madison till I get home from work, and she's definitely not the type to deal with the rotty personality. But, Madison is slowly bringing her around by doing things that make my roommate mad enough to raise her voice to Madison.

I've printed material from this forum over and over again to help her with different methods to deal with Madison's dominance display towards her. And she's coming around, thank God. My idea for the bottle came as perhaps a way for my roommate to get the upper hand (dominance wise), but now I see it's not good for us.

The reason it's not good for us is that I think it's too risky to use. While the bottle did seem to get her attention after about three tries with it, she now thinks it's a toy. She stops her bad behavior, because she thinks I'm holding a toy for her to play with. I never used the bottle to threaten or intimidate her with it. That part of it I consider bad in all respects.

I've used it from a distance; never thrown it at her or near her; or acted like a maniac (throwing arms in the air) while I shook it.

I didn't want her to fear it because if I taught her that loud things were bad or something to fear, then what about the day some child has a loud toy he's playing with? Will she run from the child or bite from fear aggression?

Too risky in my reasoning, so since she thinks the bottle is a toy right now, it's time for the bottle to disappear.

Thanks again for helping me reason this out. Praise be to this forum and the help offered here.