Thoughts on Training Collars

[Trinitii]

I used to use the choke chain while training Athena on walks till in obedience school the trainer suggested the Gentle Lead. I have pros and cons on both and would just like some thoughts or advice.

Gentle Lead - pro - she can't pull me around, I have quite a bit of control on her. Con - She spends so much of our walking time fighting to get the thing off her nose. I do the suggested training and use treats but she still seems to pull enough to keep that line tight on her nose.

Choke Chain - Pro- She isn't fighting to get it off. She seems happier. Con - I have to use physical strength to correct her. Not horrible strength as she is still a pup.

On a side note I have been able to train her to walk with the nose piece off on the gentle lead while she is by my side but once she starts pulling or acting up I put it back on her nose. This is not always an easy task.

Thanks in advance for advice!
Trinitii

[Jamie & Odin]

I had similar questions as well, and a trainer who refused to work with anyone who insisted on using a choke or prong collar.

What works for my dogs is the prong on the rott, the head collar on the malt. The malt is afflicted with a genetic condition involving his trachea, and can not tolerate any pressure on his neck whatsoever. I had the same experience as you with the rott and the head collar; he was working so hard to get the darn thing off, I couldn't teach him a single thing. Also, the head collar is not a fool-proof safe tool. If it is pulled to hard, like when the dog sees a cat and initially goes after it, he hits the end of the leash wearing the GL, it could cause significant damage to the neck. Also, the choke can cause damage to the neck and trachea that the prong does not.

The prong has been a godsend! I am slowly switching from the prong to a flat buckle collar. He is great (a virtual angel ;)) when the prong is on, but still pulls some with the buckle.

Anyway, advice I previously received here was to use whatever tool best suites the needs of your individual dog, and others can give you more concise advise about that;)

[matt4800]

Trinitii,

I have worked with three training collars.

The choke collar was the first one I used when I got my pup and before I started formal training. It seemed to work okay, but she was always pulling on it when we were walking (puppy like) and my corrections with it did not seem to have much affect.

When I started the beginner's obedience class, my trainer switched me over to the gentle leader. It worked great for control and keeping her calm, but Abby was never happy with it on and it really seemed to bring her down (mood wise), to the point she was never excited about training or walks.

When I started beginning agility training and intermediate obedience training with a rottweiler breeder and trainer in the Richmond area, they both recommended the prong collar. And four months later I swear by it. Abby does not seem to mind it. Unlike the gentle leader which she use to run from when I brought it out, she comes right to me to have me put it on when we go for a walk or start training.

It has come to the point where I can put it on backwards with the prongs facing away from her skin and still get the desired results during training. I even checked it out on myself when I bought it and even with a modest correction, it did not puncture skin or hurt greatly, it was more of a unusual discomfort/feeling that went right away as soon as I released the tension. And because of the built-in locking system, it will only close so far, so no throat damage can occur.

Just my two-cents on the other two collars that I discovered after researching the prong collar. I did see some mentions of the metal choker causing throat damage if not used properly, and a halti or leader can aggravate neck injuries. But as I stated I used all three and the only reason I switched was based on what seems to work best for us and at this point Abby seems to have no problem with it.

Matt

[Trinitii]

Thanks for the replys. I have noticed many people use the prong collar. I have one of these I used to use on my Ares before he passed away but I found that he would get to the point of trying to snap at my hand. I had previously saw a special on animal planet about how the dog knows it is you that is applying the uncomfortable feeling therefore knows where to go to stop it. Have any of you had this problem with the prong?

Also in class last night the instructor who first said not to jerk or pull hard on the gentle lead proceeded to tell me how I needed to pull on it like a choke collar for it to work???? She also had a moment when adjusting the collar Athena mouthed her (she is 6 months and saying no bite works but she still tests she never bites hard just the puppy mouthing thing) the lady tells me I need to do agression training and how rotties don't like for people to hold them to make them sit so you shouldn't do this. I never have but if your dog doesn't like something you don't just don't do it. Anyway this is turning to a rant but at the end of class she made the speech of how rottweilers get a bad rap and how great they can be.

Thanks for letting me ramble

Trinitii

[LORHEL]

I also am having trouble deciding which one to use. The gentle leader is great for control, and I get what I need from it for neighborhood walks, and we did use it in a basic obedience class at Petsmart. The problem was, the whole time she had it on, Makita would try to rub it off. she was okay on walks, because she had something to do, and not think about it, but at class, just sitting there, it drove me crazy. She would not be focused with it on, so I used it only when we actually performed things. But now that we are in a basic class at the kennel club things are much different. We had our first class last week, and I have been torn about whether to use the prong or GL. I went with the GL, which didn't give me the control I needed. I am going back to the prong, and have started incorporating it into our neighborhood walks.

I could tell one of the instructors was not too keen or familiar with the prongs, when we had her help us make sure it was the right size that night ( she wasn't against it, she just didn't know too much about it, but we got it fitted with the other instructors help.)

The prong gives you better control of the dog bottom line. As long as it is used correctly. I have to deal with the problem now, of a loose dog on our street, which I have TWICE had to deal with in one week. Its not the dogs fault, the people don't watch it, and this week the dog followed us half a block to our house.

I got Makita in and took the dog to the owners house, knocked on the door, and told her, this is the SECOND time, I have had your dog come out into the street, get aggressive and follow me and my dog, and I advise you to make sure you know where your dog is...she was dumbfounded and proceeded to yell at the dog from her step while the dog wandered into the street again, (god I pity that dog, poor dog) ...anyway, the gentle leader was not as effective as the prong in my control of makita and redirecting her to finish our walk ASAP.....

The GL is better for dogs that want to pull on walks, since you get the head control. But for all around control and training time, the prong is also good.

[pride-and-joy]

Originally posted by Trinitii
I never have but if your dog doesn't like something you don't just don't do it.
Trinitii

Are you saying...If they don't like something you give in and don't do it? Not sure if I understand? If you ARE saying that...I disagree. You are asking for trouble if you let the dog tell you what he likes and doesn't like.

The few times one of mine has resisted handling or tried to tell me a part of their body was off limits I gave a firm "No" and then used treats and praise for brief moments of tolerance to the touch...gradually increasing length of time until they get the idea.

I never give in saying, "Oh well...guess they just don't like that."

I use a prong on my 20 month old male and he never bulks or tries to mouth when I am putting it on OR when it's on. I've taught him to sit in front of me and wait. He actually LOVES to hear it jingle when I get it out of the drawer because it means going jogging, to agility class or something FUN!

Keep up the training and reading. It's an adventure well worth the effort.

[niche]

Trinitii

I recommend the prong. You give the best corrections and it's safer to use than the others. Now, if I were you I would RUN not walk away from your trainer. She's not very experienced and is not doing you any favors. With all due respect to those who use it, the Halti is for people who are not motivated enough to teach their dog to properly walk on a loose leash.

[Jamie & Odin]

niche, sorry, but that's not always the case. I have a malt that cannot tolerate any pressure on his neck, due to a genetic disorder which is extremely common in the breed. I mean no pressure, not even long enough to attempt to teach him using anything but a head collar. I do use a prong on my rott. The halti was virtually worthless for him, but a suggestion as to another type of head collar.

[niche]

Jamie:

Okay, okay, you got me. I guess I shouldn't generalize, but I think for the most part with exceptions, I still think it's true. Plus, for a dog that really pulls on the lead the halti does a lot more damage to the neck than any collar can.

[rottnvegas]

Niche don't back down here, you were right on target. This trainer sounds like a moron.

Jamie and Odin wrote: niche, sorry, but that's not always the case. I have a malt that cannot tolerate any pressure on his neck, due to a genetic disorder which is extremely common in the breed. I mean no pressure, not even long enough to attempt to teach him using anything but a head collar.

Rottnvegas: Well guess what, 99% or more of dogs as a whole don't have the genetic condition you are talking about so why would someone train all dogs with a halti when all dogs don't have a hurt neck like your dog??? Prongs are the only way to go and don't let any tree huggers tell you different. If you want FULL control over your dog that is the way to go. If you want artificial control over your dog than get one of those "gentle leader things" but don't cry when your dog acts like a freak as soon as it knows it doesn't have the thing around its muzzle.

[Jamie & Odin]

rottnvegas, ummmm, I never suggested to use a halti on all dogs. In fact, I agree with niche, and also stated that I use a prong on my rott. Just pointing out that there are reasonable exceptions.

I would also rather see people walking their dogs on a halti, rather than not walking them at all because the dog pulls. Whether or not they are too lazy to train them properly, or their trainer suggests the halti, or they just beleive the halti is better, the dog is still being walked.

One more point. When I got Odin, he was a puller! I could not walk him without the halti, until I had a trainer teach me how to fit the prong properly and teach me how to train him, but he still got walked ;)

[Trinitii]

Pride and Joy, I really didn't say that well what I was trying to say is that the trainer says don't do what your dog doesn't like. I believe you should not ignore the problem but continue to do things the dog does'nt like in a training fashion to have him become tolerant and comfortable. I am dedicated to have my pup be a pleasure to be around. The one good thing about her disliking the Gentle Lead is I have found in a twist a training method. I can take it off and she will walk by my side for about a couple blocks so far, as soon as she begins to pull I slip the nose back on till she calms down and follows the heel command. She hates it soo much she is usually quick to do so. However, I really appreciate all the responses and would like to train with one that makes her excited to see it and ready to walk!

Trinitii