Quick question

[CDLittle]

How do I put a 110# 12 m/o male into the submissive position? Do I lay on him ? Pull his head down? Dakota ( whom I have a recent problem with ignoring me) has begun to challenge me and I want to stop this quick.
Thanks for the help.
Chris

[Judi W]

What is he doing that is challenging you? Before resorting the a dominance roll, make sure that is the appropriate response for the offense and for the individual dog. It is not a magic bullet and can backfire unless you have the right foundation. Of course with the right foundation, you shouldn't need to consider it either. Give some details and let's see if we can't devise a better method of fixing things for you both.

If he is seriously threatening you, be aware that he can take you in that type of a confrontation. If he is simply disrespecting you, get out that leash and collar and tighten up on your training which is the best way to establish respect and leadership.

At any rate, please think twice, three or four times about the roll.

[Storm]

Originally posted by Judi W
........right foundation. Of course with the right foundation, you shouldn't need to consider it either.........get out that leash and collar and tighten up on your training which is the best way to establish respect and leadership.

With a good solid foundation and continued obedience training the "hierarchy" is formed. This constant involvement with ones dog ensures a better, less problematic relationship! Sure all dogs are different and in some cases one may get away without this religious "involvement" but in other cases it is imperative to maintain order thus forming a good understanding between you and your dog.

[CDLittle]

The problems I'm having is he won't give things back, starts fights with my lab if I pet the lab, runs off with my five year old ( pulls her off the couch and sits on her) , won't go where I tell him or come when I call. ( Okay, so those are the bad problems )

This is the dog that became agressive the other day when the neighbor went to pet him. ( see way out behavior for Dakota)

He had be very good with me. ( he repects and listens to my husband, no problem) But now he has taken to deciding which commands he will follow and which not from me. When he was much smaller I was able to get him over and subdue him. We went to begining puppy school and he did pretty well.

I found a trainer, just recently, that is going to come to my house and help. Now it's a tugging war to get him to go when Iwant him too. He won't go out, come in, get out of a room unless he wants or I drag him out. ( all my husband does is call his name) I'm pretty sure Dakota thinks he and I are equals now and I don't know how that happened. So my thoughts were an occaional upside down session for him like when he was a pup may remind him how things should be.
I have to get this under control soon due to the incident with the neighbor or I may be forced to find him another home.
Thanks
Chris

[Judi W]

I still do not recommend the roll over. You might very well find yourself bitten and perhaps badly. When it comes to a physical fight (which is what a roll-over simulates) bare handed man is no match for tooth and fang.

KPT is just barely an introduction, certainly does not provide a finished product. I tend to feel the roll-overs are an attempt to establish leadership through artificial means and your dog's "I don't have to put up with this crap anymore" is often a response to that.

I'd suggest for a start that you seperate the Lab and Rottweiler for a while until you get a handle on things. Too difficult to deal with that interaction as well as concentrating on the Rottweiler. Keep a collar and tab on him when he is loose in the house, and don't have him loose all the time. He will trade off with the Lab. That is a privilege that is earned. Don't call him to come if you know he isn't going to do it. That encourages him to disregard you. Go get him by the tab and take him where you want him to be. Inside or outside. Try to remember some of the leash work you were introduced to in classes and start with training about 3 times a day. Include a down stay beside your chair (leash on).

Don't put off the training until your instructor shows up. This is like a running toilet. Do something about it until the plumber gets there. Just please do not attempt to do a roll over - it is not the quick fix some believe it to be.

[Storm]

CDL, Firstly IMO a dog is to be right at the bottom of the "ladder" within any household, beneath all its family members. Your dog clearly does not see you as a "superior" not meaning that the dog is to be beaten into submission all the time BUT more importantly look up to you, respectfully! He sees himself in a position where you have very little or no influence on his "daily routine". Now should you have progressively worked on "moulding" this dog from the beginning, you definately would have had a handle on things. This is a mistake many people make, they allow the dog to do as he pleases for a certain time period then with maturity the dog develops behavioral issues, sometimes directly related to dominance that may evolve into aggression, where the dog will try to re-inforce his status. Thus not a good idea to push the issue and create a situation where there may be conflict as this may result in aggression and associated injury. Dogs elevate themselves through what may seem so insignificant, simple things but progressively the dog ups his status. So all good and well what now? Firstly if possible, I would get involved in formal obedience training where training is scheduled at specific times. This definately beats DIY stuff. I don't know where the dog sleeps at the moment but I would restrict him to certain areas only with a designated spot to sleep. Scheduled feeding times. No commands are to be given unless you are 100% certain that he will adhere to them or that you can re-inforce the desired response, considering that he understands the commands that you are giving him. Ideally you want to create a scenario where YOU are the focal point and the dog's behavior is to revolve around this. You must just get stuck in, beeing fair but consistent at all times, remembering that your basic obedience is the corner stone.:)

[joquendo]

if your dog is respecting your husband rather than you - i would suggest YOU take the dog to obedience, so he learns to obey your commands - and it may help if you receive professional training how to get you r dog to listen and respect you.

i had the exact same situation with my 120# male rottie, he listened to my husband but knew i was a push over.. when my husband and i split - i knew it was time for me to take control, even though we had taken him before to obedience class, my husband took most of the control, so i decided to take him myself and take a refresh class with me being in control... it worked a treat, i still spoil him but he listens to me much much better...

[CDLittle]

Thanks for the pointers.
I misspoke about the submissive position. I certainly could not roll him over at this point, even if you thought it was a good idea. The most I can hope for is a down. And Judy is right, I don't want to get bit.
What I want is to stop him from grabbing shoes, my glasses, newspapers or anything he can get his mouth on as soon as he comes into a room I am in. I know he does this so I will chase him.
I tried ignoring him and ended up buying another $140.00 pair of prescription glasses. ( the kids shoes don't hold up too well either)
As Storm suggested, I got out the manuel and am starting puppy school from the beginning. ( you know, it's a bit easier this time:) ) BTW, he is crated at night and when we can't watch him closly. He started chewing on my kitchen cabinet again so he's grounded from free roam at night.
Judy, what is a tab?
I have been putting his 20 foot lead on him. Makes him easier to catch.
Also, reading about Diesel, ( Dakota is not as reactive as he) what is a mental test? I would love to find that pet psychic and have her tell me what Dakota is thinking and what his personality will be when he grows up.
Thanks again for the advice.
Chris

[Judi W]

The mental test is quite long and involved and designed for adults. It requires a considerable amount of equipment and people as well as a very knowlegeable tester. It is designed to measure the suitability of the dog for work.

A tab is a 6 inch or so handle attached to the collar. If he is already dragging a 20 foot line, you have that.

[CDLittle]

Thanks. The lead seems to be working, except for this morning at 2a.m. when I let him back in and he found a shoe. I let him have it.
I found a lady who is educated in animal behavioral problems and is also said to be a reputable trainer. She's coming to eval Dakota in a couple weeks.
Mick Trainer pointed me to the info on the mental test. Boy, that does look invovled. I don't think I'd pass much less my stubborn teen boy!
Anyway, he seems to be doing much better. I won't slack off on the training this time and I'm sure he'll improve
Thanks again.
Chris

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by CDLittle
Thanks. The lead seems to be working, except for this morning at 2a.m. when I let him back in and he found a shoe. I let him have it.

That's where the problems begin...allowing him to have things he is not supposed to have...some of the time. How, when you allow this, is he going to learn what he can and cannot have in his mouth?

Yes, at 2am it is kind of hard to think straight. Lord knows I'm usually half asleep letting the dog out, and so is he sometimes! We usually both do our business and by the time I'm done, he's back at the door waiting to come in as well (times like that I love my fenced in yard!!).

If he's got something he shouldn't have, take it from him and offer something of his as a trade, like a chew toy, or a treat. That can be the beginnings of the "Give' command...he'll give up the shoe for the treat, you tell him "Good GIVE" and he gets the treat.

If he seems to be respecting your husband more than you, then youshould be the one that does the work with him (feeding, rides in the car, training, etc.), so he sees you as a superior to him instead of his equal or his subordinate.

My Mom In Laws 120 lb male is pushing everyone around except me. He would not dare try half the stuff he does with my mom in law (he see's me coming, he gets off the bed...he see's mom in law get off the bed, he gets up and growls at her when she tells him to move). He has no respect for her and she is blind to it! She coddles him and baby talks to him and it drives me mad !!

It's a lack of respect for you as Alpha, as well as his age....I think that between the ages of 1-3 years they toss all learning out the window and push every button of yours that they can....rebellious canine teenagers...luckily they can't drive or they'd be out until all hours, drinking and getting tattooed!! :D :D