Starting obedience classes

[DixieGrl113]

Next Tuesday, (3/19) will be my first class with Beau who is now 1 year old. We went through puppy-K at petsmart and I was not happy AT ALL with the trainer or the program. He is also a PP SCH trainer. I finally got in contact with someone at the local kennel club here (after 3 months of trying)and got registered. Tuesday will be MY orientation w/o dog. If everything works out ok I would like to go through them for my "refresher" courses with the others. I have been working with Beau using a prong collar lately. He behaves better while wearing one as opposed to a flat collar. He does know the difference and will behave the entire time he is wearing a prong with no corrections nessessary. Flat collar, he acts up, pulling the leash and barking at other dogs. And in general not responding to me until the 2nd or 3rd time a command is given. This is the main reason I'm getting him into class. I feel like I'm in over my head with him. My other were older when I got them and Roxy is the other I've had since a pup and she is just an awesome dog all the way around. I don't have any problems with her. I'm obviously not getting through to him the way I need to. I'm kind of anxious about how he'll act in class. Despite A LOT of socializing (with people and other dogs)and taking him just about everywhere with me he still doesn't like other dogs. He gets along fine with our pack of course but another dog comes his way and he'll posture and bark and growl until they get close enough that he can sniff and try to play. He has also recently started guarding me, for lack of a better term. Even with my other dogs. Yes, i saw the signs and have tried to correct him but he is not giving up. My question is, when I bring him to class should I bring his flat collar AND prong collar along. How should I approach the trainer about this. We haven't met yet. I guess I'm just afraid I'll give a bad impression of myself as a handler/owner and of my dog. I don't want people thinking, "typical Rottweiler" . That is everything I've tried to avoid with my dogs. I took the test that another poster gave a link to awhile back, the one that helped you get an idea of your dogs drives, Beau's scores were

Prey-65
Pack-60
Fight-70
Flight-5
This is what really got thinking about finding another class/trainer. Am I doing the right thing by taking him to a group class or should I opt for a private class until I get things back under firm control. Beau is now 1 yr old and he was neutered at 5 months. He does NOT have any problems at all with people. fat,skinny,old,young,tall short, or kids...he loves them all. He is just getting worse and worse about this dog thing. I've tried correcting for the thought and he is doing better but not good enough IMO. I've never had a problem like this with my others or with any dog I've had. I don't know anything about his parents or background. I bought him for $25 :o at the age of 3 months from an old neighbor who was in the ARMY and had to move. He was going to have him PTS. I couldn't stand by see another Rott lost b/c of an irresponsible uncaring owner. That's what I'm trying to avoid being. Any suggestions?

[Roscoe's dad]

I think its great that you are taking your puppy to more training. I think starting off in group might be a wise choice, you will (or should) have an expierienced trainer who should know how to deal with Beau, and teach you if he wants to act up with the other dogs in your class. Good luck and keep us all posted.

[DixieGrl113]

BTW, this is also a dog I wanted to start SAR training with eventually. Not lookin good right now, but he could be a helluva tracker.

[Judi W]

Since he is rude to other dogs, I would suggest that you use a properly fitted pinch or a slip collar placed up behind the ears when going to obedience class. A flat collar will not give you the control you will need expecially in an area with many other dogs. Nothing is bound to scare the heck out of everyone more than a good sized Rottweiler making aggressive sounds and towing the owner around on a flat collar. :D They will all appreciate your being able to control him physically until the training takes hold enough for you to do so with the mind and voice.

Have fun and press on..........

[DixieGrl113]

I'm happy someone else thinks it would be ok, even nessessary to use a pinch collar. I KNOW I would not have enough control with a flat collar. I just didn't know if that was frowned on the first day of class. The first "class" is actually a people only meeting. I'm going to see if afterwards I could meet one on one with the instructor and discuss these concerns with her and see if she can give me some pointers to help prepare.;) The best part is, I can finally make some SAR contacts. When he completes this class he'll get his CGC but I would really like to continue on with classes and try for some obed titles and start some tracking work. Oh no, I think I've been bitten by the working dog bug. He is just such a wonderful dog and so damn smart. I would really like to do something with him. I think if he had a job he'd be much happier. At any rate thank you for your help Roscoe's Dad and Judi! I feel a little better. I'm just glad I have yall to talk to. There's not a lot of Rott people around here. Definately not anyone I'd be asking for advice.

[Judi W]

At my training club, flat collars are used only in KPT and agility. Nothing makes me cringe more than to see a large dog towing its owner into class on a flat collar! I send them straight over to the director's table and instruct them to get a training collar (we keep a supply for just those cases) because I know we aren't going to get anything done otherwise.

So, you bet. You show up with the collar that allows you to get the best control so that you can then proceed on with the training. I will sometimes have someone arrive with pinch. No problem except they never seem to be fitted correctly. I'm checking collars on all dogs to see that they are put on correctly, fit right, and I simply remove links until that pinch is fitted correctly too. I tell them they are welcome to use the pinch, but only if it is fitted properly, same as for any collar.

I don't know of anyone who would want a class of beginner or advanced beginner dogs all on flat collars. Yipes! ;)

[rottnelmo]

I totally agree with Judi W that you should come to the class with your pinch collar on.

I am an instructor and in our curriculm (sp) we address training collars on the second week, but if I see an out of control dog, I would definately address it in the first week. Just make sure that the collar is fitted correctly, or arrive a little early to have your instructor fit the collar for you.

The other thing you can do is contact the school or instructor a head of time and get their thoughts. You can tell them your situation and get their feedback.

I will tell you that not all trainers like or use pinch collars...if you know how to use it and you are using correctly, plus you are getting the desired results, then dont let anyone talk you out of what works for you. I am not saying to be closed minded...if you have used or would like to use other collars, I would encourage it, but what works for one dog does not work for all dogs.

When I first started at my school as an instructor, I had my dogs in a class with an older instructor...I came in with Pinchs on both of my dogs (Elmo and Shadow, My mom was working Shadow) and she chastised me in front of the entire class for having pinch collars on and not using leather leashes. I stood my ground with her and didnt let her back me down. I have tried different collar: Chokes, toggle chokes, gentle leaders and have always ended up back on the pinch when I really need ultimate control.

I am not saying that your instructor is going to give you a hard time or tell you not to use pinches...but there are those instructors out there who believe in "gentler" methods. Not that I am that "yank and crank" kind of instructor. I just know that there are cases where a pinch is definately called for.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

[DixieGrl113]

It should have enough links removed that it sits directly behind the ears and doesn't slide down the neck right? My dad showed my how to fit one but I just want to make sure its correct. I don't want to show up looking like a total idiot. Beau does respond well to me while using the pinch collars. So, that's what I'm going to use. I've heard good things about this club. One of my friends who participates in obed trials with her GSDs recomended them. Her dogs are awesome so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. My resources are VERY limited here. That's why I haven't taken any of my dogs to classes other than pup-k. I would rather work with them myself than have a bad trainer help me ruin them. (I can do that onmy own for less money thank you ;) ) Thanks to Judi and WD I've kept most problems at bay but nothing beats a formal class with a good instructor. I'm just happy I've finally found one. Now, I can start networking for SAR & tracking. Its been difficult since leaving a big city and coming here to NOTHING. But things are looking up. Thanks you 2 :)

[rottnelmo]

Yes...it should fit right behind the ears, when you put it on and the chain part is behind the neck let it lie flat and fit your fingers underneath...you should only be able to fit two fingers flat, if you can fit more fingers than that take prongs out...if you can only get one finger in, put a prong back in. Sometimes the dog can be inbetween sizes....so if you can get two fingers in, but there is slightly more room and if you try to take a prong out and it is too small...put the prong back in and use it that way. It is better for it to be a slight bit too big, than too small. If it is too small then the dog will be over senstive to any correction...even the smallest one.

You are right when you say that nothing beats a formal class...especially a formal class with a good instructor! It sounds like you have a credible place...good luck and let us know how it goes!!

Beth

[SABELLESMOM]

I suppose we were more fortunate in finding a suitable instructor for our puppy classes. We plan to continue more advances classes over the summer.
Our instructor left the question of prong collar vs flat, web collar vs Martingale collar vs head halter vs choke collar, etc. completely up to the individual. Some dogs are more rambunctious and strong, some owners are less strong/agile than others.
We had a fully grown Irish wolfhound in the class, who initially seemed like a bad case. He did fine, and in a short time, with lots of "homework". He came in literally dragging his owner. Then he barked incessantly. Reluctant to sit. Kept struggling with his "down stay". In fact the owner nearly had to sit on him in the beginning. She did end up with a prong collar as did a Boxer and a Lab. We had one head halter, also a Lab.
Our instructor did say it was necessary to show a dog "how to get it right" before we were allowed to correct the dog. Corrections were brief and generally a sharp, quick tug on the lead or verbal. followed immediately with lots of "good dog".
I was pleased as I wanted positive training and wanted to avoid most anything negative if possible.
Good luck with your training! I bet you'll be much happier with him once he's in your control. The thing is he'll be happier too as he'll know what to do, with your guidance, in certain unerving situations. A down stay comes in mighty handy from time to time. I hope you've found a great instructor! If not...keep looking. :D :) :D :) :D