Tough love or not??

[diana4721]

Roxy is 11 months old and well behaved for the most part. but she likes to do things that upset me, like pulling things from the bathroom trash. when she was younger, she knew better. now shes a teenager she tries me and her rules. sometimes when i get on to her she barks at me ..like talking back. i hate it and i get back at her even more. i growl and scold her in a deep voice (as deep as possible, i am a petite woman)until she turns away.
but many rotty owners and large dog owners have told me to punch her and spank her. i refuse to do it. but what can i do to make her realize i'm the leader of the pack?

[niche]

You can look throughout this site and find ways to establish yourself as pack leader. From your previous posts it doesn't seem like you have a real problem yet. Just make her earn everything, even petting.

Don't listen to the so-called large dog owners that you've talked to. They know nothing. Never strike your dog, especially in the face. If it comes to blows guess who's going to win... not you. Besides, you don't want to ruin your dogs spirit.

Also don't be afraid of your dog. When we first adopted our girl my wife stayed with her alone the first night. She called me hysterical to return home because she was afraid of this dog. Wand was growling and barking and running around like mad. She was just playing. She has these fits where she growls and barks not at anyone in particular. Just runs throws herself on the jumps. She seems insane. Now my wife and I just look at her and laugh and sometimes we'll join in the fun. Rotties are sometimes very vocal. It's okay as long as it's not directed at you.

[2rotties2luv]

Originally posted by diana4721
what can i do to make her realize i'm the leader of the pack?

Obedience training. Train, train, and train some more. Training builds a bond between you and your dog and establishes you as the leader.

Many experienced trainers and rottie owners recommend continuous training classes until your rottie reaches maturity, between 2 & 3 years of age. You can repeat the classes until you and your rottie have all the exercises down perfect; then go to the next level of classes and repeat until THAT's perfect. You don't have to go to obedience competitions or put titles on your dog (unless you WANT to, of course).

If you are already doing obedience classes, then stay with it! If you get tired of obedience, there's other types of training, such as agility, flyball, schutzhund, carting & herding.

Start reading the posts under the "Behavior" and "Training" sections - you'll see that many behavior problems develop because the owner either didn't do any obedience training or stopped after the beginner class.

Good luck !!:)

[ajaxsdad]

diana:

anyone who punches or strikes a dog is a &$%*%$ coward! moreover, that person shouldn't own a dog, be allowed to reproduce, or have a library card.
training is not a phase, for us it's a way of life. you will encounter setbacks from time to time but you get right back up on that horse. it's all about consistency!

ajaxsdad

[Mattweiser]

First off.... your dog is not doing things because she knows it bothers you... she is digging things out of the trash because she is a dog.... stop taking these "transgressions" personally!!

Secondly, if you are spending more than 3 seconds "scolding" your dog... you are not disciplining it.... you are enagaged in a battle, and Alpha dogs don't have battles, because they don't have to...

The only exception to that is if the dog is actually trying to displace you position, and therby elevate her own postion... but from what you have posted, I would doubt that this is the case..


If she is barking back at you, she probably thinks that you are playing with her.. in fact, if she seems to be purposly digging in the trash, she may very well be doing that, simply to initiate "play" with you....

another thing to consider, is that if (big if) she is trying to displace you.. you might want to reconsider your current method of rank assurance... this yelling/barking, and staring could lead to a more physical confrontation, if that is in fact her desire

[voice4rotts]

The idea of punching a dog makes me so sick I cannot even express this in words.
I agree with Matt, dogs are dogs. The idea of spite is not in their understanding and the teenage phase of a dogs life can be trying indeed. Always continue training, it is a way of life.

There is a book that may help that every dog guardian should own, "Dog's never lie about love."

Good Luck and be patient and remember they will do "dog" things, after all if they didn't then they would be just like people,
UGH!!! :p

[BarryMcD]

Diana:

I agree with others that continued training is a must, but there are some quick fixes that may help.

1) First, no punching, hitting, or even screaming! These are not negative reinforcement, these are cruelty to animals. You must train the dog humanely, and this means no pain, no humiliation, no meanness. So first, get hold of yourself. You can't calm this dog down if you can't calm yourself first.

2) Roxy is a teenager. Ever raise a human teenager?
Enough said! This is the time in this dog's development when it will challenge you and question your authority. Like someone earlier said, Alpha dogs don't fight and argue: they don't have to. Don't let yourself be pulled into struggles or confrontations. Avoid them, or cut them short. Here are some ways how:

3) You mentioned Roxy pulling things out of the trash. This is a classical case of "It's your fault, not the dogs!" If you know she is going to pull things out of the trash, why is the trash where she can get at it? If, God forbid, you had a toddler who found Clorox in the laundry room and drank some, would you blame the 1 year old? Work on dog-proofing your home. Whatever things you know Roxy is going to get in trouble with, put these objects up high, in a closed room, etc. Limit her access to avoid the trouble starting in the first place.

4) To avoid confrontations, but still stay in charge, try time-outs. Keep a collar on the dog at all times. Some people even attach a short leash and let it dangle all day long. (But careful: don't do that if you go out. The dog could get caught in a dangerous situation if the leash gets caught!) Now if she starts up, grab her quickly but calmly, without comment or reaction. Don't yell "No!" Don't say a word. Lead her quickly into a neutral dog-safe room where she can't get in trouble. If you have no such room, get a circular chain mount and screw it to a baseboard somewhere safe and tie her to it. Shut the door, leave the room, and don't have anything to do with her for about five minutes. Give her no toys or entertainment.

Then let her loose as though nothing had happened. Start from scratch, as friends. If she repeats the behavior, back into the time-out room. 5 minutes. All is forgotten. Start again. You may need to repeat this twenty times the first time if the dog is really out of hand, but make sure you win! Each time you need to do it in the future, it will work better.

5) Most misbehavior is caused by a lack of exercise and play. Do you walk the dog regularly? Spend more good time with her and you will have less bad behavior. That's the biggest advantage of going to a training class: it's not the training, it's the fact that you are spending time out with your dog, one on one! Don't let her bad behavior drive you into a cycle of ignoring her or being mad at her all the time. You need to create and spend good fun quality time with her.

6) More important than anything else, reward her when she is NOT in the garbage. Praise her when she's calm and not challenging you. Positive reinforcement works far better than negative! Say "Yes, good girl!" every chance you get. If she is next to the trash and is not in it, give her a treat and praise her. When she's bad, say nothing or as little as possible--and go to the time out, or just remove the problem. (Put the trash up on the counter and you're done.)

7) I personally have fallen in love with a type of training called Clicker Training. Look on the Internet for some good articles on this if you'd like to try it. Try keywords Karen Pryor to find the site of the women who brought this technique to dog training. You might want to try it. It's cheap, fun, and can be very effective in focusing on particular behaviors. A conventional training class will teach you how to use commands like Come, Sit, Heel, Stay, to get your dog out of the garbage, and these may or may not work.

With Clicker Training, you can specifically work on "Stay out of the garbage," or whatever positive behavior you require, and you can train it in a relatively short time. The principle behind clicker training is rewarding proper behavior and ignoring unwanted behavior. Notice I said "unwanted," not "bad." To the dog, nothing she does is bad or wrong or incorrect. She is just being a dog. With Clicker Training, you reinforce her when she is doing what you prefer, and when she's not, you pretend she does not exist. In the end you always win because the dog wants and needs to be accepted and acknowledged. Again, like a human teenager, the dog is pressing the limits to see how far she can bend your rules. As a teacher and psychology major for 28 years, I can tell you that when a teenager challenges authority or breaks a rule, he or she is always trying to in fact get you to set limits. They are looking for guidance and clear rules to follow. Your dog is probing you now, seeing how far she can go. You need to show her how far that is, unequivically, but humanely.

8) FINALLY, if you actually know any of those dog owners who say slap the dog or punch it, please send them to me. It's been a while since I've punched anyone (used to study martial arts), but I'd be glad to demonstrate to these owners what it feels like to the dog to be hit!

[LORHEL]

Barry, EXCELLENT advice, especially on the part about exercise and bad behavior....if the dog is not getting enough stimulation and playtime, attention, etc..it is going to do other things, and its not the dogs fault.

By the way, #8--I would love to take out some frustrations, let me know if you need any help..not only is it cruelty it is gonna hit them back in the face later on...who wants to have a dog that cringes or cowers because you hit it...macho b.s. or one of the times, the dog is really going to defend itself, and bite back.

I hate that people think because they are large breeds or because of the stupid people like the ones this person knows they can hit a dog or beat it to make it listen. Its wrong and only makes it worse.

I will never understand people.

[BarryMcD]

LORHEL: Wow! I just joined this forum a week ago, and now I am being seconded and complemented by a "Senior Member"! Does that make me an "Intermediate Member"? :)

You know, it is strange how much rage toward a human a mistreated animal can cause! We joke about wanting to get our hands on whoever advocates hitting a dog... and of course neither of us would harm a person in that way in reality, though I'll bet it would be a tie between us who got down to the local police department or animal warden first!

But there is something in the helplessness and trusting nature of dogs that just makes this type of abuse so unbearable.

Now that I've said all the politically correct things, I'm still waiting for a list of those rednecks who said to punch the dog! A few minutes alone in an empty room...

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by LORHEL
who wants to have a dog that cringes or cowers because you hit it...macho b.s. or one of the times, the dog is really going to defend itself, and bite back.

Oh...do I agree with that statement 400 times over!! Example: Mom in laws dog (has been mentioned here previously with regard to him having issues with my male) has literally taken over the house. In-laws do not see it, and tolerate it, and the dog knows it. However, he KNOWS that *I* will not put up with his crap. Last week, he was on mom in laws bed, I was sitting next to him, stroking his front feet (for some reason, he loves that!!). He began to roll over onto his back and almost fell off the end of the bed. My hubby was there to 'catch' him and the dog growled and snapped at hubby (I'd have let him fall off the bed - not a hard landing - there's a bug cushy dog bed there that he's supposed to lay on but it's NEVER used!). Of course, I made him get off the bed completely and he 'ran' to mom in law, who stroked his head and talked to him like a baby . She asked him several times to 'Sit Down!" and when he didn't, she pushed on his butt. What'd she get in return, a growl and snap that barely missed her face! She then smacked him on the nose (or tried to!) and he saw it coming...she now has a nice bruise on three of her fingers where he bit her!

She asked me the next day WHY he's acting like that!! She asked WHY my dog listens to me and doesn't act up like hers does (well, quite frankly, I treat my dog like a dog, and he knows his place in the 'pack'). I bit my tongue as I have to live with her every day (we share the house). I gave her a copy of the book "Leader of The Pack" and also "Good Dogs, Bad Habits" and of course, told her to go back to square one with ALL the dogs - nothing for free, and get'em them into obed classes!

If I had REALLY told her what I thought, I'd be looking for a new place to live (which I AM doing, just have to win Lottery before I can afford it!!) :D.

Anyways, sorry so long! Keep attending obed classes..if that's not an option, keep up with the training at home...obedience is a life-long process!!

[LORHEL]

Barry, although I would like to accept your praise about being a senior member, I only earned it one way, by having a year of hell with my first dog and asking so many questions here I know everyone was sick of me. This is a wonderful place to learn everything you need to know about rottweilers, by who better than, ACTUAL owners, themselves, and several people here are the true senior members, they have years of training experience, field work, show experience, some work in veterinary fields, they are the true "seniors". By the way, there is no big prize for the most posts....they gave away all the free vacations and prizes last year..LOL

I have learned a great deal over the last couple of years now, and have found happiness, with a very sweet rottie girl. I feel that I can contribute in certain areas, where I have learned also, but for the major issues, I let the real experts deal with them.
I got a lot of help here with Zeke and I don't know what I would have done without it, for that I am forever greatful.
I have a tremendous love and respect for this breed, and am learning things myself constantly. All I want to do is be the best owner I can be, and enjoy having a well trained and behaved companion for life.