Hand Shyness

[Carmen F]

My thirteen week old Jessy has become extremely "hand shy" meaning that when anyone goes to pet her, she quickly moves away from them.

She has been a cautious (but curious) pup from the beginning but thought that it was due to her plane ride from Seattle down to So. Cal. and getting settled in to her new home. We had an issue with carsickness but have diligently worked that issue out. When I take her for short walks in the neighborhood she is very interested in everything that moves but when the people move towards her, she runs behind my legs peering out around them. I have been taking her out every day to areas where there are people, letting her watch for a little bit and then moving to where they are coming and going and she gets comfortable with that. After a short while she will pull on the leash to smell the people walking by but again reverts to the shyness when someone attempts to pet her. I have had her for a month now and am becoming concerned at this behavior.

We have started our obedience classes (which she is doing absolutely great at!) although she is very shy around the other dogs (barking and growling while bouncing around with the other pups her size) but when they get too close she runs away.

I have no other dogs in the household and will not take her to dog parks so her exposure to dogs is limited to who we encounter on our short walks and training classes (part of the problem right?). She has not had any "bad" experiences" which would account for her shyness. Jessy is a very well-adjusted & affectionate pup in her own surroundings.

I know that socialization is extremely important to ensure a well-rounded and confident dog but should I be concerned that this behavior seems to not be going away at this age? This is only my second Rottie and the first one to have a "shyness" problem. I will continue to expose her to new situations and perhaps with time she will get comfortable with people and dogs.

Any helpful hints/suggestions? Will greatly appreciate any comments......

[Sue]

One suggestion I have is that you ask people not to pet her. What I mean is, let her go to them. Have them ignore her until she indicates that she's comfortable with them. If they make an overture and she reacts with shyness, ignore her some more. My first Rottie was 15 months old when we got him. He wasn't mean in any way, but if people tried to pet him too soon he didn't like it. If they persisted, he'd grumble. I learned to tell people to ignore him. He wasn't about to go after them or anything, so they'd just ignore him and let him snuffle around them and check things out. THEN when they made an attempt to pet him he was fine. But he had to do it on his own time. Don't stop taking her places and letting her meet new people and pups....she needs that socialization. Just don't let people push too much and hopefully she'll come to realize as this continues (and she gets older) that there's a world of new friends out there just waiting to meet her! :)

[Sue]

Oh, and I forgot to add....be sure you're not inadvertantly reinforcing her behavior by trying to soothe her with pets and "oh honey, that's okay" type of reactions on your part. Then she'll think this reaction is the right thing for her to do.

[Judy Chrusch]

Carmen, Sue gave some very good advice:D. I have a 15 month old intact male and I prefer people not come up to him bc he may not want to see certain people for whatever reason so if I do allow it I will ask the person to stay put and we go to them and before I do so I say in a happy voice," let's go see." I had a situation the other day where 2 guys were near me and Czar saw them, he lunged and barked, I told him to stay and that it was o.k.. He is very protective of me, especially when we're out for our walks so don't feel like you have to take yours up to greet everyone. Socialization can mean many things, the mere fact of getting out and seeing people is part of it. You have to remember, we, as owners have to protect our dogs and ourselves bc in a split second, for whatever reason they can bite. I know you have a pup now but that pup will grow up to be big some day soon so make sure when she behaves in that shy way and hiding behind you that you don't pity her, say, "let's go see" with your happy voice and you'll see a big difference. A dog like that full grown would make me more leery then one who is confident;) Czar never liked anyone going over his head to pet him, I didn't allow it from day one for many reasons, one being he's a show dog and I didn't want him to pull his ears back all the time so I asked people to pet under his chin. The first reaction is for people to pet on top. So ask people to pet under instead of on top of the head and remember, your voice and your body language says it all;). Continue to do what you're doing and make sure you are confident as well. Give it time, it'll work out but please remember, do not pity her or baby her :D.

Judy

[Carmen F]

Sue and Judy -

Thanks so much for the comments and suggestions. Update on Jessy - we went to our third group obedience class and after a few minutes of being "shy" she was approaching the other dogs (rotties, afghan and a mastiff-type dog). Then one of her littermates joined the group and what a difference! They haven't seen (smelled) each other since they went to their new homes but when they touched noses and the other areas, they were buddies. I wonder if they remember each other because it was different from her reaction to the other dogs be it bigger or smaller than her. At the end of the class, she was romping (supervised by both moms of course) with a seven month old female rottie and having a great time. She was a bit better with the people too.

I appreciate the honesty at being told not to baby/pity her when she is unsure. That was exactly what I was doing, petting her and soothing her with "that's ok sweetie". This afternoon we went out on the front porch to watch and listen to the guy across the street wash his truck and she was scared but I ignored her completely. Lo and behold, within a minute she was sitting right out in front of me, taking it all in!!

I am involved in starting a rottie club here in my area with breeders, trainers
and rottie lovers like me. Our intent is to educate others about the rottie breed. Our first meeting is next Saturday and one of my agenda items will be to tell them about this forum and the wonderful people associated with it so all can take advantage of information that is discussed and addressed here.

Again, my thanks for your suggestions!!

[voice4rotts]

I need to say that much like children, there is a fine line between "babying" and being supportive when either are in an uncomfortable situation. Being that she came from a breeder does not guarantee that there is no reason she should be hand shy, there may be something you do not know.
Remember to be supportive so she knows "Mommy" is there if she needs you for reassurance.

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to politely ask people NOT to pet your dog on the head? i was going to make this a separate thread, but it really goes along the lines of the question here so maybe someone can respond?

Soapie is hand shy but will tolerate petting on the head (although she and I would much prefer if people wouldn't do so until SHE is ready)

Buddy is fear aggressive and will react aggressively when anyone new tries to pet him on the head. Buddy is always 100% under my control so I always warn people, he's fear aggressive, please don't pet him on the head. But I wonder, is there a better way to ask people not to pet your dog? I don't want to help feed into the myth that Rottweilers are these terrible aggressive dogs, you know?

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by Soapie&Buddy'sMom
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to politely ask people NOT to pet your dog on the head? i was going to make this a separate thread, but it really goes along the lines of the question here so maybe someone can respond?

But I wonder, is there a better way to ask people not to pet your dog? I don't want to help feed into the myth that Rottweilers are these terrible aggressive dogs, you know?

A friend of mine has a cutie-patootie 10 month old male who, unfortunately, has alergies caused by the carpeting in her home (which is being relpaced this weekend - finally!!). If people approach her while she's out, she'll tell them either 'Please do not pet the top of his head, he's got an ear infection that hurts'. or, basically will tell them "No, I'd rather you didn't pet him...he's not feeling well, he has an ear infection and it's quite painful."

DO NOT be afraid to tell people where to pet your dog. People should appreciate your honesty and you can tell them that the next time you see them, you can certainly pet him under the chin...

People try to pet my Ben on the top of his head and each time their hand goes over the head, he looks up to see where it's going, then the hand pulls up, then back over and he looks up again... .

I've started to TELL people to please wait until he is sitting patiently and then ask them to pet him under the chin...'that's his favorite place!' and scratch there to show them how much he likes it (he really does!).

I walk away from or back away from people that randomly walk up to my dog in PetCo to pet him...that aggravates me to no end! I tell people to please ASK before approaching ANY dog.

I recently saw a post somewhere about a question that is ALWAYS asked of me "Will he bite me?" (Why do they ask that after they've started petting him?)...my response will now be "Only if you bite him first!" :D :D

[voice4rotts]

You can simply say, " Please don't pet her, she is shy with new people." Be honest. This does not suggest agression or bad temperment. I too dislike people who approach without asking permission.

[Carmen F]

voice4rotts -

Of course I remain supportive....Jessy will look back or up at me and I respond with a "good girl" to let her know I am there. The activity I refrain from now is not to pick her up and coddle her.

We have some errands to run this morning and I will tell people to please not pet her, let her approach you if she wants to. If they are miffed by that, so what. My first priority is my pup not other people's feelings in this case.

[Judy Chrusch]

Carmen, see how fast they can become confident when we change our ways;)? Too many people make the mistake of babying and talking baby talk to their dogs, especially when they are little and seem to be afraid of certain situations. Whether you have a male or female you can't baby or shelter them, it's up to us to make them able to deal with all types of situations and most importantly make them the confident dog they're suppose to be :D. I'm glad things are better and looking up and remember, make training fun yet productive and always remember you're the one in charge and in control.

SoapieandBuddy'sMom, you and I got off on the wrong foot in a previous post months ago so you may not even want to hear what I have to say but as far as the petting on their head, I politely say, please don't pet him on the head, and tell them to pet under his chin. Yes, I show Czar and that's the main reason I don't like people going over or on top of his head but he doesn't like anyone coming over his head anyway. So I see nothing wrong with saying that you prefer not having them pet on top of the head and also tell them he doesn't like it. You really don't owe anyone an explanation so don't feel bad if you have certain things that you don't like people doing. We also have to protect our breed and ourselves. Some dogs REALLY don't like it on the head and perhaps they could bite, for what ever reason.

Carmen, I just read your last post again, keep up the good work and stay tough, LOL. That's the key, let people come up to her. You know, when you're out, if you observe the people around you, don't you see some who your pup would like to greet right away and others where she may back off and would rather not greet? That's the very reason we have to respect that they may NOT WANT to greet everyone and that's o.k. Socializing doesn't always mean direct contact so whenever you're in a situation where you may not be comfortable with what people are doing or attempting to do, hey, open your mouth bc when Jessy is full grown she may not tolerate what she does now and that's o.k. My very best to you and Jessy.

Judy

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

I need to be more forceful with my requests not to pet on the head, that is for sure. everyone here is right, i don't have to give a long explanation.
i don't know why i feel that i have to give so many facts. Maybe because sometimes people don't listen and try to pet on the head anyway. :) my neighbor does it and i've told her MANY times, don't pet on the head!
p.s. judy, i don't hold a grudge and hope you don't ;) any advice or opinion is appreciated, that's what we're here for, right!

[Judy Chrusch]

Soapie, It must be a female thing as far as we feel like we have to go into detail or explain everything:D. My husband says NO is NO, no need to say anymore, that's a guy for ya, right to the point, no explanations. I use to be a bit shy to say to people what I did or didn't want them to do to my dog, now I say, wait a minute, it's my dog. Hey, the more you do it the easier it gets :D. Yep we'll keep on learning, and nope, I don't hold grudges either, it's a waste of precious time :D. Take care. Did you clean out your mailbox yet LOL?

Judy

[Judi W]

I would caution you to be very aware of your tone of voice and body english. If you use an aggressive or worried tone, or your body english indicates the people should stay back, you will give a message to the dog that even friendly people approaching are to be of concern and reinforce their baseless fears. This is NOT where you want to go with a dog that is already fearful and timid. Use a happy cheerful voice saying hello in a positive manner and if you need to ask someone not to come on in on the dog, still continue the positive voice. You can do this while putting in a partial left turn so that the dog is somewhat back and to the side of you while still not hiding behind you. That interposes you between the person and the dog in a casual and unobvious manner.

As mentioned, no pet pet pet or stroking of a dog that is showing unreasonable fears, however, a good sturdy pat on the shoulder accompanied again by a happy voice is fine. Avoid the "soothing" voice as well.

Your goal is to give the dog confidence in other people and in your ability to make the judgements. It is very important that timid dogs trust their owners and so the messages you give are critical.

[AB3]

I agree with Judy Chrusch, I don't feel I have to explain to anyone why I wish for them not to pet MY pet. That irritates me beyond belief. Would you allow a perfect stranger to drive your car, just because they like it or without permission, pick up your new born baby because they're cute? I wouldn't. It's no one's business why you don't want your pet to be bothered. Just politely ask that they don't and leave it at that. Judy said it correctly, socialization does not always mean direct contact. True, this breed may have a reputation, but the dog is still YOUR dog.