Crate Training Tips Wanted

[klausy]

We (wife Melissa and myself Matt...no kids or other animals) have a new rottn baby of 9wks. His name is Romeo. We had a previous rottn baby of 7yrs that unfortunately went to Rottie heaven due to kidney failure... We are very happy and excited to have Romeo, but it's been a while since the days of the "puppy" stages.

Romeo is used to his crate and although reluctant to go into his crate, once he's in there he no longer whimpers or whines.

Our typical weekday with Romeo goes like this... We get up 2hrs EARLY, take him out of his crate, straight outside. He does his business and we play with him for awhile. Back inside we each take turns playing and "bonding" with him while the other prepares for work etc... Before we leave for work (7:30am), he goes in his crate. I come home for lunch at 11:30, immediately take him outside, play with him, play with him, play with him...eat and back to his crate. I return home from work at 4:45pm and he is out of his crate for the remainder of the evening with both of us for play time and training time etc... Bedtime he's back to his crate (11pm or so) At 3am one of us will get up and take him outside and then back to the crate unit 5:30am and on and on and on.....

Question. At what stage can we increase his crate time during the night to avoid the 3am wake up call? Also, at what stage is it (if ever) "ok" to leave him in his crate throughout the day while at work 7:30am - 4:30 pm?? OR do we wait until he can be outside in the back yard with his house, toys, water and food etc...?? AND when "can" we leave him outside for the day? We're afraid to leave him outside on his own as he is so young.... we have a big beautiful back yard and trust me, he is spoiled and has EVERYTHING a rottie would want barring us home from work all day.

When we're home from work he's with us 100% of the time. Loved, spoiled, and a true part of our family. We even have a "baby book" already!

I know this is lengthy and full of questions, but we would GREATLY appreciate your advice here. We enjoy reading the forums and appreciate ALL of the information that is here! A BIG thank you to EVERYONE for all that you do!

Thank you sooo much for your time!

matt, melissa, & romeo

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Klausy
matt66@mindspring.com

[rlogle]

If you've read any of my questions you know I am no expert. Most of us who have pets, and crate them, have, at times, left them in their crates for longer than is good for them. A pup has very little bladder control so I would say when he is no longer a pup. around 12-18 months he can stay in the crate all night with out those annoying wake-ups to walk. Begin by adding 20-30 minutes extra each night. For example if you usually get up to take him out at 3AM start getting up at 3:20 or 3:30 and go out, bring him right back in, no playing, no eating, no drinking. (Many people here will have a problem with the no drinking part and my message will probably be deleted so if you wanna give water then okay) Right back to the crate. Do this for about 3-4 days then add another 30-45 minutes to it, do that for about 5 days then add another 45 minutes to an hour to it do that for like a week, and so on and so forth. Outside I am not sure about that. My two, Sarge about a year and Attikuz almost 4 months goes out to play in the yard, (my yard is 431 secure acres with electric fencing, cameras and security) They play out by themselves at times, and at other times I am out with them. (431 acres is a lot of land for them to play on) Many here think I am not a responsible pet owner because I let them roam freely, so I have to say if you do not have secure fenced property for them to play in do not let them wander. I work for a living so there are times that 8 hours may go by before they are out of their crates. I know that I will catch heck about that but it is true. I have tried to convince my hired help to take them out but for some reason they are all scared of them when I am not around. Anyway If your boy is able to hold it thru the night then he should make it thru the work day.
Sorry if some of the information is not what you needed, however, Hope some of it helps.

[AngelBunny]

klausy:

Welcome!

If you're afraid to leave Romeo uncrated in your house, you should also be afraid to leave him outside unsupervised; just as he could get into something in your house, so too could he get into something while he's outside.

There are people here on the Forum who have had their dogs stolen from their yards and there are also people here who suspect their neighbors poisoned their dogs when the dogs were left unsupervised in their yards. So, in answer to your question: You may want to never leave him unsupervised in your yard.

As for avoiding the 3 am wake up call--my take on it is if my puppy fusses at night, I get up & take the puppy outside. When the puppy sleeps thruout the nite w/o fussing is when the need for wake up calls ends.

[Karen J. Reece]

I also am no expert on crate training but I started Mac at around 4 months because he was destroying my carpet. He stays in his about 5 1/2 hours a day and I do not leave food or water with him. He was already sleeping thru the night without going out when we started the crate training. We never leave him in it at night. He sleeps with one of my sons. He is now almost 6 months old and we have had no problems at all. He never appears hungry or thirsty when we let him out (just wants to play).

[xenacleo]

I have to agree with AngelBunny. I wait for the puppy to let me know if he has to go out and then take him out. If he sleeps through the night, let him. Also, as for the crate, my dogs (four of them ages ranging from 1 year to 5 years) all stay in crates from 8:00 am to 4:00 pm. We have no problems. Of course we started this when they were about 6 months of age.

[Karen J. Reece]

Oops! Forgot one thing. I would never leave either of my dogs outside without supervision. Too many things can happen. I had a pen built for my rottie and it sits empty because I am afraid what could happen to him while we are away. One of his litter-mates was stolen from his pen just a few days after he went to live with his new family.

[klausy]

Thank you all for your help! It's greatly appreciated! How about feeding? How important is it to keep him on a strict feeding scedule? He seems to want to eat all of the time. Especially at 3am or so when we let him out. And this "puppy biting" thing... I've read about bite inhibition etc... he doesn't bite hard, but it is obviously annoying. He's always knawing at our feet and hands. Normal? Go away with age/training? It just seems like we are constantly saying "NO". He learns very quick... he knows his name and can sit when his "puppy attention span" is intact. But still the consistant biting etc...
Thanks again!

[Caleb'sMom]

Hi,
One more thing about crating, (was it mentioned already and I missed it?) I've always heard a general rule that a pup can be crated one hour for each month of age. Maybe a little more.

My dog learned no bite very well. Now he just knows the command when he's a little too playful, but we started with a lesson. Whenever I felt teeth, I put my hand over the top of his muzzle and pulled his lips up, scrunched like. Saying 'no bite.' When he started to dislike the hold, I let go. But you ahve to do it immediately so that they can make the association. Its my opinion that a household dog should not be allowed to nip, so you teach it early. Lessons learned young stick better, I think?
At this point, my pup gently puts his mouth around our limbs, but knows not to bear down. That wasn't my preference, but I have a hard time training my boyfriend.

About feeding, they should have a specific time, and then it ends. Really young ones have two or three times a day, and when they're done, take away the bowl. Someone else may know the appropriate amount of time that the bowl should be left out for your pup's age.

Enjoy!

[Karen J. Reece]

Feeding is another topic you will probably get different opinions on and here is mine.
I have always kept dry food and water out for my dogs. I have never yet had to put one on a diet. With Mac, I never put food or water in his crate and I don't leave food out at night for him. He has dry food and water from the time I get home (4:00p.m. til bedtime, usually 10 or 11). Also once a week he gets scrambled eggs and he gets a can of puppy food once a day. My older dog has access all the time to food and water. They are both completely housetrained night and day. So I guess its just a question of which method you prefer. This way works for us.

[AngelBunny]

klausy:

When Romeo nips, you might try yelping. This is what his sibs would do to let him know to stop. Yelping worked with Mox, our foster (who turned into our child thru adoption)--she was about 8 mo old when we started fostering her.

You need to keep on him that nipping isn't appropriate because it won't cease with age; it will, if not curtailed, get worse. (Dogs don't grow out of bad habits--they just grow into them.) When he starts nipping & biting, try distracting him with a toy. Be prepared to keep yelping & ditracting him for what seems like forever--if you're consistent, he'll learn he's not to do it.

Our youngest dog, Moxie, is a very compact, nimble dog. She jumped up on us. She has learned that jumping is something we don't like but since she has the curiosity of a cat & likes to see what we're carrying, she now will balance on her hind legs, w/o touching us, sniffing to see what we might be carrying.

As for food: Unlike Karen, I would *never* dream of leaving food out all the time. All the Rotties I've had have been (& are) eating machines who would eat themselves to death given the chance. I feed the dogs on a schedule (tho if I don't feel like getting up at 5 to feed them on Sat & Sun, I don't & they don't fuss til about 7). Puppies, tho, I try hard to keep them on a schedule where meals are concerned--it helps with their housetraining.

Another reason I don't free feed is that it can make traveling with your dog difficult. Friends may not appreciate having bowls of dog food down constantly & this method usually doesn't work if they have dogs of their own.

[rlogle]

Leave the food out for twenty minutes. If he wants to play for fifteen minutes and eat for five, fine. If he wants to play for twenty minutes fine. Take the food away in twenty minutes. Give it about five to ten minutes and tell him it's time to eat, again put the food down for twenty minutes. If he's hungry this is all it should take, he'll eat in the alloted time limit. AngelBunny is correct about the yelping. Yelp when teeth touch the skin and say NO BITE! Stop playing with him and ignore him for about thirty seconds when he "bites" nips etc.... It will only take about thirty seconds of you ignoring him. He'll catch on very quick if you use the ignoring. The biting should be stopped now. Don't wait.