Snapped at Vet - Shock Collar?

[netescapee]

Took 6 mo. Gracie to the vet and she growled and snapped at him. He had to put a speculum deep in her ear--she has a fungal infection in right ear. (I had asked about muzzling and he said no, he thought she'd be fine).

When she snapped her head toward him I grabbed her muzzle and held her telling her no bite until she stopped squiqqling and said I am the boss and she will learn I'm the boss (know she can't understand this but wanted to convey I was the boss).

Prior I had taken in a rottie/shep mix that was starved and abused. He lurched at a cat at the vet and got my hand instead. I was determined he would not 'eat' my cats and used a shock collar on him on leash and then in pen when first introducing the cats. Did that about 7 times and after a month of 'no kitty' he was fine and even let the cats rub against him. We had him for 10 more months before cancer and loved him dearly.

Evidently the video with a shock collar (a relative bought) says not to use it for agression. I'm concerned with Gracie and rotties getting so strong and powerful that I may need to use a shock collar on her to teach her not to be agressive. What's the difference between shocking Noog not to eat the cats and that working--and shocking Gracie that biting and growling is NOT ACCEPTABLE!

Gracie's confidence has come up considerably with people at the pet store, she lets them pet her and often leans against them and licks their hands. Also, up at the dog park. Often plays with 'strange' dogs if there aren't a huge number around (weekends are very busy). At first she kept her head down with people and avoided all the dogs like they were going to eat her. So she's made progress in three weeks. Problem is I haven't had, nor will have, a lot of situations where I'd be having her examined or handled like at the vets. However, anyone could startle her and voila I have a biting dog potentially???

I need help before I use the shock collar to make sure that I don't start something that's not going to work.

[AngelBunny]

netescapee:

Don't use the shock collar to get your puppy to like/tolerate your vet. Far better, kinder and humane would be to take her periodically to the vet to get weighed, sit with you in the waiting room, and get the vet techs to feed her cookies, pet and fuss over her. A common mistake people make is to only take the dog to the vet when the dog needs to be seen, and then they wonder why the dog isn't good at the vet's.

Have you taken Gracie to obedience classes? This will help.

The vet should have put a muzzle on your dog--it had to have been painful to have that device deep in an ear harboring an infection.

You should easily be able to teach your dog that biting, growling and snapping isn't an appropriate thing to do w/o resorting to an e-collar because at 6 mo, your dog is a puppy.

[SantaCruzHumane]

As a vet I would like to say do not, DO NOT, shock your dog in this situation. In the previous training with the collar you were correcting your dog for prey or hunting behavior. This does work. In the vet's office your dog is reacting out of fear and pain. Shocking a dog in this situation will convince the dog that the threat to its safety is real and it will become uncontrollably aggressive out of self defense. Correcting the dog verbally and restraining it was the proper thing to do. If you continue obedience training your dog will eventually realize that it has to submit to examinations when you say so. Follow the recommendations above for "happy vet visits" and use the muzzle when needed.

[This message has been edited by SantaCruzHumane (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Barbara Surplus]

netescapee, I recently started going to a new vet who is just lovely with the dogs. She must have petted and played with Sammy for 15 minutes before checking him over and gave him lots of treats. Her wonderful bedside manner won him over (he almost didn't want to come home with me **sigh**). Not saying that your vet did anything wrong, but sometimes they're in a hurry and don't take into account that the dog is new to the practice and needs a bit more time to become accustomed to the procedures. My boy is very even tempered and soft so I wasn't worried about his reaction to a new situation but I can just imagine how a dog who is fearful, comes from a not-so-good circumstance and just has no idea what's happening to him might react. Don't be too hard on Gracie. Try to visit the vet without needing any treatment, have the techs bombard her with treats and happiness, ask the vet to see her for a few minutes each time even though they may be busy, and you may very well help her adjust to normal life without any future incidents. Remember, slow and easy does it. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif
Barbara

[Barbara Surplus]

netescapee, I recently started going to a new vet who is just lovely with the dogs. She must have petted and played with Sammy for 15 minutes before checking him over and gave him lots of treats. Her wonderful bedside manner won him over (he almost didn't want to come home with me **sigh**). Not saying that your vet did anything wrong, but sometimes they're in a hurry and don't take into account that the dog is new to the practice and needs a bit more time to become accustomed to the procedures. My boy is very even tempered and soft so I wasn't worried about his reaction to a new situation but I can just imagine how a dog who is fearful, comes from a not-so-good circumstance and just has no idea what's happening to him might react.

Don't be too hard on Gracie. Try to visit the vet without needing any treatment, have the techs bombard her with treats and happiness, ask the vet to see her for a few minutes each time even though they may be busy, and you may very well help her adjust to normal life without any future incidents. Remember, slow and easy does it. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif
Barbara

[netescapee]

SantaCruzHumane, thank you for that explanation. It makes perfect sense that she is afraid she's going to be hurt and that if I shock her, yes indeed, she'll be hurt which could/would make her more aggressive. My question is how to condition her to not react negatively when being examined. Should I pretend I'm examining her and condition her that way with positive enforcement. Then try to schedule a weekly 'check/examination' by the vet?

It seems like a 2-3 minute check by him would be good to teach her she's not going to be hurt. It seems like my doing it and my daughter's doing it is good for reinforcement but we're not strangers handling her. So, having a stranger handle her would be good.

What do you think?

Also, what do you recommend when she sees people and she growls? At the pet store she's fine but sometimes in the parking lot she's not--I assume again that it's fear. Suggestions?

[amber bock]

An ear examination is delicate as most dogs consider ears and paws personal areas. But add the fact that the dog had an infection means the dog was in pain and the examination just hurt more. When I have had ear infections there have been a few times I felt like hitting my doctor..face it, it hurts. I would recommend the same as the above entry, take your dog to the vet monthly just to check weight. its a good way to monitor your pups growth and to associate the vet with a good experience and not pain