sit & stay

[WorkinDogz]

I use food reward in puppy imprinting as well.

The dog does NOT become reliant on the food.....will not ONLY work for food...and will NOT ignore you if you don't have food......if you train correctly :)

As far as the sit/stay command thing goes. I don't use stay as a command. I train a sport that the use of stay would be considered a double command.

STAY for the average house pet is a WONDERFUL thing and I'm not sure why discouraging it is happening at all.

[Judi W]

The stay command is a bit of extra help and combined with the stay signal assists the dog in understanding. It is acceptable in competition everywhere (I believe) except on the sport field and even then, the dog is easily weaned from it as it learns to read the body language and understand the routines better. Anything that aids in establishing a conditioned response (food, toys, praise, etc) simply makes the learning process easier on the dog and greatly lessens the need for the compulsion which inhibits a happy working relationship.

The spoken language is not natural to your dog. He has to make a trememdous effort to comprehend you, so anything you can do to help him understand is simply being a good partner. The quickest way to build responsiveness is to find a wonderful way to reward. There is an old horse training saying that violence begins where understanding ends. Or, as my son puts it, first you have to be smarter than the dog..... with the Rottweiler, that takes some work and the willingness to leave your ego off the training field.

[WorkinDogz]

There's another couple of sayings too Judi......

"Good training needs a kind heart as well as a cool and informed head for the proper application of necessary compulsion." ---Konrad Most

and........

"Ego has no place in training. Nothing can humble you faster than a dog."

[Judi W]

Yep, fancy brought low.....

Remembering that you are forming a partnership and keeping your sense of humor instead of your ego in your pocket is essential

[Caesarsmom]

Judi and WD......I just love your train of thought.

I suppose the reason I have never used treats to train my dogs is because we train horses too, and we don't give the horses treats as we train them. The horses learn quite easily without treats, and work willingly for us. We believe in building a partnership with both horses and dogs -- and they are happy to do the exercises (games) we show them. I consider my dogs to be a little brighter than the horses we work, so ........ well, you get the picture.

Everyone trains as they see fit, and those who choose to use food or toys as motivation, turn out some absolutely wonderful dogs.

JPmoney.....not sure why your guy is being such a pistol! Our dogs are outside much of the time with us (we live on a farm), so they are pretty worn out once they come in. When I'm working with my 16 week old pup, and we do our sits, downs, etc., I point to my chin, and tell her to "watch me." This may not be considered "correct," but as I stated earlier, I don't seriously compete in obedience.....so I really don't have to follow any rules; I can do what works for me and mine. I have trained many dogs over the years as family companions, and have always been complimented on how well behaved they are, wherever I take them. Maybe some of the experts on this forum could be more helpful.

[Judi W]

Ceasarsmom, you're right. When we are also planning on competition, we do need more than compliance in static exercises but we need active enthusiasm and as much precision as possible which is not a priority with a dog that is getting manners strictly for companionship. Please don't take that to mean that we don't also ask for and require compliance in the companionship part of our relationship, just that drive is also a big part of what we are using, so we want to develop and channel it.

[Caesarsmom]

Duely noted and completely understood, Judi.

[lindak]

My 15.5 week old Porsha has the sit and down command pretty well. She even stays on command. However, this is in the house only. She was taught sit/down with treats. I hold out my hand in the "stop" position in front of her. I say "stay". I put the food treat out a couple of feet away from her and just use my hand signal. When I say go ahead, she goes for her reward. It's cute to watch because she glances over at my hand than the food than my hand..... and is patiently waiting for the release command. I do this with her toys too. I throw the toy across the kitchen while telling her to stay and she really listens. Now, how will i get her to do this outside. Will she eventually just sit on command wherever we are?
I do this exercise with her every day.